15225 replies to this topic

[DayTraderDad]

I think this is what caused the fall this morning:

 

Debt-relief bill hits financial services stocks and retailers

The Treasury estimates the debt-relief proposals could result in the write-off of between R13.2bn and R20bn of debt

 

https://www.business...-and-retailers/

 

Highlights:

 

"Shares in financial services groups and retailers fell on Friday morning after President Cyril Ramaphosa signed into law a controversial bill aimed at extinguishing the debts of struggling low-income earners."

[DayTraderDad]

The correct value of this share is ZERO, and so sooner or later it will go to ZERO.

Yes I agree hope you still hoping for DLT to shoot the lights out but again now only 1.15 Sorry!!!

[DayTraderDad]

So you think they might want to move to the following structure:

 

Pepkor SA 49.9% 

Pepkor Europe 49.9%

Conforama 49.9%

Mattress Firm 49.9 %

Greenlit 49.9%

Unitrans 25%

 

This would indeed bring down debt significantly and cost of consolidation. They would have to prepare a SUM of Parts valuation in then. 

 

Anyone with some thoughts on what will happen to the MF and Confo debt after the restructure. As Du Preez said NV is only guarantor so who is responsible to pay the debt?

 

As for SUSHI their only income is from MF how will they pay SAEG?

 

If the Confo and MF debt is to be written off that means NV will have to find the E4.5 bil and assuming they get E2 bil for PEP EU still short E2.5 bil?

Edited by DayTraderDad, 16 August 2019 - 02:44 PM.

[Tom]

The "Longs" with their hourly pump posts, are where they wanted other people to be.

 

They have never stopped saying every hour and ever minute that soon they will be enjoying the profits, and there they are...........................

[andi222]

The correct value of this share is ZERO, and so sooner or later it will go to ZERO.

 

Thanks Tom, you have mentioned this 100 times already. We don't need daily reminders that it will go to Zero. 

[Tom]

In the past few months this room was used as a "Boiler Room" by fraudsters who posted their endless lies with impunity and with all their obnoxious "self confident" false posts, to ploy the potential investors, especially the ones without much knowledge, into buying this absolutely worthless miserable share.

The ones that wanted to post the truth were constantly and vigorously insulted and pushed out by this gang of "longs".

 

Had the management have the best interest of the share holders at heart they would have liquidated back in Dec 2107, so the share holders could have gotten something,  (instead the management asked for extra pay for what they claimed "overtime"), but now after all the high expenses, losses and impairments and a NAV that's now way below zero, liquidation will be too late and will not give a cent to the share holders.

 

Attempts to use this so called "restructuring" or any other means to become a holding company in order to dodge the loans or court cases will be picked up by the lawyers of the defrauded shareholders and hopefully fail miserably.

 

The winners are: The management and the creditors (who are mostly hedge funds and known to be ruthless when it comes to money, and have experience on how to milk companies).

The losers are: The share holders, and the employees.

 

The correct value of this share is ZERO, and so sooner or later it will go to ZERO.

[DayTraderDad]

Hey DTD and others,

 

It is a very interesting question.  How indeed, will the NV debt be apportioned so that NV carries a nominal debt after the restructure.

 

Following the excellent Steinhoff Investor Day feedback, the Steinhoff strategy is clear.  What is debatable is the sequence of events and timelines thereof.

 

I personally feel that Steinhoff should avoid any steps that improve the NAV until they have a handle on the quantum of the litigation (both shareholder and vendor).  In this regard, Steinhoff NOT improve the equity position and/or reduce debt prior to the litigation being largely understood.  I do not believe that  it is in the current shareholder's interest to increase the equity or NAV prior to the litigation settlement?

 

Regarding the debt, clearly the vision articulated by the CEO of Steinhoff operating in future as a pure Investment Holding Company, would require  firstly no consolidation of the accounting treatment.  This would mean giving up control of all their businesses that is currently consolidated including both Pepkor Europe and Pepkor Africa.  They would also have to unbundle all the smaller companies that they have control over.   

 

Many of these non-core (not retail) businesses would be sold over the coming months and years. 

 

Each one of these associate companies would then have to take the debt on their own balance (something that has already happened in Pepkor Africa, and is clearly happening at Pepkor Europe).  Once these operating units are funding their working capital and capital requirements off their own balance sheet, the NV debt will be reduced to a minimum.

 

Note that for Steinhoff to account via equity and not consolidation methodology, they would have to give up lose control of both PE and PA.  This would require that significant holdings will be sold (50.1% of PE and approximately 21% of PA). 

 

Based on ZAR16.80 : 1Euro, Steinhoff would realise proceeds of around E700m from PA (21% of current market cap).  It is questionable whether your SARB would allow these funds to be transferred outside the country.  For PE, estimates put a valuation around E4b.  with 50% of this roughly E2b which presumably would be used to pair the debt.

 

There is no evidence that Greenlit will follow an IPO (unless you know something buddy).  However, I agree that they will give up 50% in order to shift to equity accounting.

 

The new NV will be a very different company 3 to 5 years from now.

 

Regards

Captainfrom82

Insert from a article from Aussie: 

 

"Over the last 12 months Greenlit has been in talks with lenders about a

management buyout, demerger and initial public offering and has explored

a trade sale, with suitors including private-equity firm KKR, Harvey Norman

and Nick Scali said to have shown interest."

[Captainfrom82]

So you think they might want to move to the following structure:

 

Pepkor SA 49.9% 

Pepkor Europe 49.9%

Conforama 49.9%

Mattress Firm 49.9 %

Greenlit 49.9%

Unitrans 25%

 

This would indeed bring down debt significantly and cost of consolidation. They would have to prepare a SUM of Parts valuation in then. 

 

Yes, except the Unitrans 25% is a short term holding as they determine who the BEE holder will be.  Steinhoff is going to focus on retail assets going forward.

 

You also need to add to that the Manufacturing currently units in their stable.

 

Down quite a bit of large volumes, I see!

[andi222]

...For them to move to a holding company where they account via equity in an associate, they would have to lose control.  So probably closer to 50%

 

You also need to factor in about E1b for the European properties that is to be sold as well.  After taking all of the restructuring into account, my gut feel is that they will reduce the debt to around E3.5b to E4b, and then look at refinancing this at a much lower interest rate (probably in the region of 1 to 3 percent).

 

So you think they might want to move to the following structure:

 

Pepkor SA 49.9% 

Pepkor Europe 49.9%

Conforama 49.9%

Mattress Firm 49.9 %

Greenlit 49.9%

Unitrans 25%

 

This would indeed bring down debt significantly and cost of consolidation. They would have to prepare a SUM of Parts valuation in then. 

[Captainfrom82]

So I think Steinhoff will list Pepkor Europe and it will sell around 25 to 50% of the shares. I think that Steinhoff will be able to raise around 1-2 Billion euro with this deal. 

 

...For them to move to a holding company where they account via equity in an associate, they would have to lose control.  So probably closer to 50%

 

You also need to factor in about E1b for the European properties that is to be sold as well.  After taking all of the restructuring into account, my gut feel is that they will reduce the debt to around E3.5b to E4b, and then look at refinancing this at a much lower interest rate (probably in the region of 1 to 3 percent).

[Captainfrom82]

Yes it is a good way of looking at it. For me the restructure is not just the implementation of the CVA that is the first step (the most important to bring financial stabilisation) think what we all waiting for is how will SNH look like once restructured into a investment holding company. 

There has to be IPO of Pepkor Eu and Greenlit Brands.

How is the debt going to be distributed to each unit because when SNH is a Investment Holding company the income is only dividends from its various investment holding.

 

Hey DTD and others,

 

It is a very interesting question.  How indeed, will the NV debt be apportioned so that NV carries a nominal debt after the restructure.

 

Following the excellent Steinhoff Investor Day feedback, the Steinhoff strategy is clear.  What is debatable is the sequence of events and timelines thereof.

 

I personally feel that Steinhoff should avoid any steps that improve the NAV until they have a handle on the quantum of the litigation (both shareholder and vendor).  In this regard, Steinhoff NOT improve the equity position and/or reduce debt prior to the litigation being largely understood.  I do not believe that  it is in the current shareholder's interest to increase the equity or NAV prior to the litigation settlement?

 

Regarding the debt, clearly the vision articulated by the CEO of Steinhoff operating in future as a pure Investment Holding Company, would require  firstly no consolidation of the accounting treatment.  This would mean giving up control of all their businesses that is currently consolidated including both Pepkor Europe and Pepkor Africa.  They would also have to unbundle all the smaller companies that they have control over.   

 

Many of these non-core (not retail) businesses would be sold over the coming months and years. 

 

Each one of these associate companies would then have to take the debt on their own balance (something that has already happened in Pepkor Africa, and is clearly happening at Pepkor Europe).  Once these operating units are funding their working capital and capital requirements off their own balance sheet, the NV debt will be reduced to a minimum.

 

Note that for Steinhoff to account via equity and not consolidation methodology, they would have to give up lose control of both PE and PA.  This would require that significant holdings will be sold (50.1% of PE and approximately 21% of PA). 

 

Based on ZAR16.80 : 1Euro, Steinhoff would realise proceeds of around E700m from PA (21% of current market cap).  It is questionable whether your SARB would allow these funds to be transferred outside the country.  For PE, estimates put a valuation around E4b.  with 50% of this roughly E2b which presumably would be used to pair the debt.

 

There is no evidence that Greenlit will follow an IPO (unless you know something buddy).  However, I agree that they will give up 50% in order to shift to equity accounting.

 

The new NV will be a very different company 3 to 5 years from now.

 

Regards

Captainfrom82

[Investment novice]

Look away, come back and play another day....
Legal liability will be settled for zero cents or agreed amount plus equity.
Once settled.. Equity will gain value....
Keep cash.... Lovely shares in the market to buy, take a pick... Buy now.... Look away.. Or chance it tomorrow
... There is value in the market...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[andi222]

Interesting article:

 

https://www.retailga...loat-september/

 

So I think Steinhoff will list Pepkor Europe and it will sell around 25 to 50% of the shares. I think that Steinhoff will be able to raise around 1-2 Billion euro with this deal. 

[DayTraderDad]

Interesting article:

 

https://www.retailga...loat-september/

t is understood by the Times that Pepkor Europe has held meetings with legal advisers and will seek advice next month on a dual track process to explore a stock exchange listing and a sale.

 

Sources said that the business would probably have a valuation of at least €4 billion and was likely to attract significant interest from private equity firms.

[DayTraderDad]

Interesting article:

 

https://www.retailga...loat-september/

[Tom]

In the past few months this room was used as a "Boiler Room" by fraudsters who posted their endless lies with impunity and with all their obnoxious "self confident" false posts, to ploy the potential investors, especially the ones without much knowledge, into buying this absolutely worthless miserable share.

The ones that wanted to post the truth were constantly and vigorously insulted and pushed out by this gang of "longs".

 

Had the management have the best interest of the share holders at heart they would have liquidated back in Dec 2107, so the share holders could have gotten something,  (instead the management asked for extra pay for what they claimed "overtime"), but now after all the high expenses, losses and impairments and a NAV that's now way below zero, liquidation will be too late and will not give a cent to the share holders.

 

Attempts to use this so called "restructuring" or any other means to become a holding company in order to dodge the loans or court cases will be picked up by the lawyers of the defrauded shareholders and hopefully fail miserably.

 

The winners are: The management and the creditors (who are mostly hedge funds and known to be ruthless when it comes to money, and have experience on how to milk companies).

The losers are: The share holders, and the employees.

 

[Lionelza1]

Buy the rumour sell the fact, rumour ipo listing of pepkor EU, market buying it

[andi222]

Blood bath out there omw. Guys have lost hope and are jumping the ship. 

 

Wonder where we will find the bottom so that I can add some more shares  

 

[Lionelza1]

And watch those trolls come out the closet haha

[Investment novice]

I have a nice portion of shares... But happy to hold this for he next 5 years.
I feel more for the general market who have seen their pension value wiped by 40% in the past 6 months...
Look at decimation of Sasol today, etc tc etc

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app