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Steinhoff


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#7541 DayTraderDad

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 11:57 AM

Hi DTD, I agree with you regarding the value in Steinhoff- however there is this huge IF in the air. The value is only there if the Litigation are sorted.

I like your optimism, however there is no way these will be settled before December. We will be lucky if they can find agreements before December 2021. 

 

One thing is for sure- Steinhoff will be operating till December 2021. There is no doubt about that. 

No with regards to litigation. Normal shareholders who participate in a class action basically have little to zero chance of getting anything out of Steinhoff. Looking in the past Bank of America, VW for example huge amounts where claimed however only around 1-5% of the total claim was actually settled/paid. So I don't see too much danger here. The only guys who will win something here are the lawyers as they get a fixed % of the total claim. For example if the manage to get say 5% of the 200 Billion total claim for shareholders that would be around 10 Billion rand and they normally get 10% of this for their work. So at the end they would get 1 billion rand for their work and they will smile for days and except the offer made. So i think the max settlement will be 10 Billion - Around 500-600 Million euro.

 

Now the bigger threats are the claims from Christo wiese and the other claims. Biggest one here is CW claim, luckily he has said mentioned that he is willing to sit around a table and discuss the claims and find a solution out of court.

 

As Steinhoff will be able to focus on these I think they have a good chance of fighting these claims. 

 

Please also don't forget that the following parties will support Steinhoff in these processes as they would have to share the fines. These parties include:

Genesis International Holdings N.V. , Deloitte & Touche Group Service (Pty) Ltd, Standard Chartered Bank, Rodl & Partners, Steinhoff Secretarial Services (Pty) Ltd, Southern View Finance UK Limited, Campion Capital, Commerzbank Aktiengesellschaft , Commerzbank Aktiengesellschaft , Commerzbank Aktiengesellschaft , PSG Capital, Steinhoff International Holdings, Steinhoff International Holdings N.V.

 

So there are many parties involved and trust me Steinhoff will not be the only one liable for all settlements (if any). 

Hi Andi,

 

The reason I see litigation sorted by December is:

1 - There is no money for litigation or payment for claims. The more money SNH spends in lawyers the less shareholders going to get.

2 - Creditor have a strong hold in the company due to the debt and do not see them taking a haircut to pay shareholders.

3 - The longer the claims hang around SNH neck the less the chance of recovery.

4 - I do believe this will be sorted soon because there is no other solution. Basically there is liquidation or settlement.

5 - As much as CW has a claim he is in turn being sued by shareholder class action claims. So how will this play out!!! Think he will have to answer the purchase of MF.

6 - The only way is for all to sit and come to some agreement to allow the company to restructure and after paying debt down they can give dividends.

 

So if CW wins then the full sale should be reverse in which case Brait would need to give back the money, SNH compensated for the development of the business etc. Also SNH could claim back the money for the worthless Brait shares.

 

If one takes all the above in consideration there is not much options left and the quicker this is sorted the quicker SNH future will start because without restructure SNH will not survive.


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#7542 leo

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 11:45 AM

No glowing, as I was right in the end about this share.

 

If it makes you happy, this thing burnt me badly. I'm still young ish..... but I'll never make this mistake again.


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#7543 Lionelza1

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:48 AM

Management had every opportunity to suspend this share, could it be strategic to allow trade and run share price down to deal with litigation claims?

Haha oh cook why am I still around
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#7544 andi222

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:34 AM

This is proving to be challenging to a persons ability to see value so people get scared and dump the share.

 

I am holding on because still see value in time it will recover. Before December the litigation will be sorted.

 

Hi DTD, I agree with you regarding the value in Steinhoff- however there is this huge IF in the air. The value is only there if the Litigation are sorted.

I like your optimism, however there is no way these will be settled before December. We will be lucky if they can find agreements before December 2021. 

 

One thing is for sure- Steinhoff will be operating till December 2021. There is no doubt about that. 

No with regards to litigation. Normal shareholders who participate in a class action basically have little to zero chance of getting anything out of Steinhoff. Looking in the past Bank of America, VW for example huge amounts where claimed however only around 1-5% of the total claim was actually settled/paid. So I don't see too much danger here. The only guys who will win something here are the lawyers as they get a fixed % of the total claim. For example if the manage to get say 5% of the 200 Billion total claim for shareholders that would be around 10 Billion rand and they normally get 10% of this for their work. So at the end they would get 1 billion rand for their work and they will smile for days and except the offer made. So i think the max settlement will be 10 Billion - Around 500-600 Million euro.

 

Now the bigger threats are the claims from Christo wiese and the other claims. Biggest one here is CW claim, luckily he has said mentioned that he is willing to sit around a table and discuss the claims and find a solution out of court.

 

As Steinhoff will be able to focus on these I think they have a good chance of fighting these claims. 

 

Please also don't forget that the following parties will support Steinhoff in these processes as they would have to share the fines. These parties include:

Genesis International Holdings N.V. , Deloitte & Touche Group Service (Pty) Ltd, Standard Chartered Bank, Rodl & Partners, Steinhoff Secretarial Services (Pty) Ltd, Southern View Finance UK Limited, Campion Capital, Commerzbank Aktiengesellschaft , Commerzbank Aktiengesellschaft , Commerzbank Aktiengesellschaft , PSG Capital, Steinhoff International Holdings, Steinhoff International Holdings N.V.

 

So there are many parties involved and trust me Steinhoff will not be the only one liable for all settlements (if any). 


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#7545 Burnt as well

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:12 AM

This is proving to be challenging to a persons ability to see value so people get scared and dump the share.

I am holding on because still see value in time it will recover. Before December the litigation will be sorted.


The litigation is the biggest drag at the moment. Du Preez said they can’t disclose much and prefers to keep his cards close to his chest due to adversarial nature of lawsuits but he might not have a company by year-end at this pace. They need to provide some color on strategy at the AGM next week as currently investors are expecting a worse case scenario and just dumping the stock.
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#7546 DayTraderDad

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:55 AM

This is proving to be challenging to a persons ability to see value so people get scared and dump the share.

 

I am holding on because still see value in time it will recover. Before December the litigation will be sorted.


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#7547 Investment novice

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:50 AM

There is no money, and there are plenty of law suits.... I see one road to salvation.... It would be interesting if snh guides on their legal strategy...

The legal settlement will take the same route as the creditor negotiation.... Everyone in a room,

Lots of play available.... Share price will be all over the place.... And the shares will be mopped up

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#7548 andi222

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:50 AM

Zero is always a possibility...

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Yes and everyone knows that if he invests into a share it can go to zero. The basics of investing. If you are scared of this rather invest your money into a fixed deposit. 


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#7549 Investment novice

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:46 AM

Zero is always a possibility...

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#7550 andi222

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:40 AM

For the first time since I started trading this share, I believe zero is a real possibility. Hate to say it but Polly was right! I’m cutting my substantial losses and getting out before it falls further

 

Understandable, hundreds of Shareholders are jumping the ship. No one is getting my shares tho. Keeping them till the end. 


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#7551 Burnt as well

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:23 AM

Eish close eyes... Useless management led by liar Mr Leon du Preez


For the first time since I started trading this share, I believe zero is a real possibility. Hate to say it but Polly was right! I’m cutting my substantial losses and getting out before it falls further
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#7552 Lionelza1

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:16 AM

Eish close eyes... Useless management led by liar Mr Leon du Preez
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#7553 Investment novice

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 06:04 PM

20% decline in Germany... Slaughterhouse... Look away...


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#7554 Investment novice

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 05:17 PM

Delisting maybe on the cards.....and a relisting...

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#7555 andi222

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 05:12 PM

For me it makes no sense at all. . .as nothing has changed materially. . . but I guess that's how the market is. You need to stay strong and not get emotional. 


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#7556 Burnt as well

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 04:43 PM

We might break the R1. Only around 250 Million € Market Cap left. I think a lot of of people are jumping the ship, Next strong support is only at 60 cents.


97 cents....maybe zero is closer than we thought!
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#7557 andi222

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 04:13 PM

We might break the R1. Only around 250 Million € Market Cap left. I think a lot of of people are jumping the ship, Next strong support is only at 60 cents. 


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#7558 Lionelza1

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 05:16 PM

Hi IN, I agree...seems nasty for people to be gloating cause snh doing badly...and bit sic if lost money and keep coming back on thread to make sure everyone else is loosing more..I'm not invested but hope it pulls through


U posted dumb threads..... This takes the cake for sure
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#7559 DayTraderDad

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 02:50 PM

Pepco Europe to date have 1703 stores and 28 to open buy the 30th of August.

 

Insert from FY 2018.
"PEPCO now operates 1 499 stores in 10 territories."
 
So by end of August at 11 months there was a increase of 232 stores with another 125 with no opening date but marked opening soon.
 
 

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#7560 DayTraderDad

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 11:55 AM

Hi IN, I agree...seems nasty for people to be gloating cause snh doing badly...and bit sic if lost money and keep coming back on thread to make sure everyone else is loosing more..I'm not invested but hope it pulls through

Well said!! The good thing is the only people that think SNH not going to make it is the ones with no money invested because creditors of E9 bil and many share holders do believe SNH will survive. We will see once the final restructure is in place!!


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