15225 replies to this topic

[DayTraderDad]

Its that Bloomberg article. Stating that assets worth 15 Billion are still there. Bloomberg is one of the most reliable sources out there. That's why it's flying.

I agree that will make investor believe there is some value.

[andi222]

Its that Bloomberg article. Stating that assets worth 15 Billion are still there. Bloomberg is one of the most reliable sources out there. That's why it's flying.

[Investment novice]

Some thing leaked we will be the last to know by tomorrow with a SENS.

Or nothing leaked... Just pennie stock movement

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[DayTraderDad]

No news at all - Just an indication that no one knows what the outcome will be unfortunately. All depends on the legal claims. 

Some thing leaked we will be the last to know by tomorrow with a SENS.

[andi222]

And now? Why snh doing sudden surge.. this share baffling ...see it on sharenet.co.za when checking my other shares

 

No news at all - Just an indication that no one knows what the outcome will be unfortunately. All depends on the legal claims. 

[Midas1]

And now? Why snh doing sudden surge.. this share baffling 😁 ...see it on sharenet.co.za when checking my other shares

[DayTraderDad]

Yeah, Andi, Thanks for that. 

 

I've mentioned this point variously and many people (including Bloomberg) carried out their own exercise in this regard.   The Bloomberg E15b assets valuation is possible.  This would then realise a NAV of around E6b which is exactly the value of the litigation. 

 

I know that we spoke about carrying out a similar exercise buddy.  I apologise that I have not yet sent the template.  Sorry!! I should have this done by sometime tomorrow.

 

 

Not trying to downplay the Steinhoff problems, but It is worth pointing out that even if Steinhoff did not have a cloud of debt and litigation hanging over it, that the share price would have tanked yesterday regardless.  The retail listed companies bled heavily.

 

Source: Moneyweb

• Top losers
• View All

Share Price Move Move %  SHOPRIT 126.86 -12.93 -9.25%  PICKNPAY 56.84 -3.44 -5.71%  DIS-CHEM 19.85 -0.88 -4.25%  PEPKORH 16.08 -0.59 -3.54%  WOOLIES 52.10 -1.84 -3.41%

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

Good post, not to forget Sasol from 580 all the way to 236!!

[DayTraderDad]

Many investors are reeling across the board.... It's tough times in SA..... Hope that next year this time we have renewed optimism... Recovery across the board.. And top forty finds a second 4 year uptrend..

There is still money to be made... Snh not dead.

We are all sorry for Polly, but anti semetic views cannot be tolerated

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I agree some people are so anti SNH they can only talk when going down but failing to notice there are many shares in the JSE that have dived recently just as bad.

[Captainfrom82]

https://www.bloomber...e-holding-stock

 

How on earth are they getting to 15 Billion worth of assets? Am I missing something?

 

Yeah, Andi, Thanks for that. 

 

I've mentioned this point variously and many people (including Bloomberg) carried out their own exercise in this regard.   The Bloomberg E15b assets valuation is possible.  This would then realise a NAV of around E6b which is exactly the value of the litigation. 

 

I know that we spoke about carrying out a similar exercise buddy.  I apologise that I have not yet sent the template.  Sorry!! I should have this done by sometime tomorrow.

 

 

Not trying to downplay the Steinhoff problems, but It is worth pointing out that even if Steinhoff did not have a cloud of debt and litigation hanging over it, that the share price would have tanked yesterday regardless.  The retail listed companies bled heavily.

 

Source: Moneyweb

• Top losers
• View All

Share Price Move Move %  SHOPRIT 126.86 -12.93 -9.25%  PICKNPAY 56.84 -3.44 -5.71%  DIS-CHEM 19.85 -0.88 -4.25%  PEPKORH 16.08 -0.59 -3.54%  WOOLIES 52.10 -1.84 -3.41%

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[DayTraderDad]

https://www.bloomber...e-holding-stock

 

How on earth are they getting to 15 Billion worth of assets? Am I missing something?

I think the tide is turning more positive news coming but agree not sure where they get all that value.

[andi222]

https://www.bloomber...e-holding-stock

 

How on earth are they getting to 15 Billion worth of assets? Am I missing something?

[Investment novice]

Now all the other threads are dead to. What a own goal.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

Many investors are reeling across the board.... It's tough times in SA..... Hope that next year this time we have renewed optimism... Recovery across the board.. And top forty finds a second 4 year uptrend..

There is still money to be made... Snh not dead.

We are all sorry for Polly, but anti semetic views cannot be tolerated

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[skeez]

Now all the other threads are dead to. What a own goal.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Lionelza1]

For the first time since I started trading this share, I believe zero is a real possibility. Hate to say it but Polly was right! I’m cutting my substantial losses and getting out before it falls further

Yea Polly warned about this, not many listened. He has excellent knowledge of the markets and his posts made more sense than others... pity this admin made that useless decision to ban him

[Investment novice]

Hi DTD,

regarding your points see my feedback.

1 - There is no money for litigation or payment for claims. The more money SNH spends in lawyers the less shareholders going to get.
Well I wouldn't say there is no money. If they liquidate today the biggest losers will be the creditors. Shareholders would only lose another 250 Million € (Market Cap currently) vs creditors would lose 9 Billion. Yes lawyers fees are high, however as I mentioned in my previous post Steinhoff is not alone on this. See how many parties are involved which also don't want to pay a cents- So I think the lawyers costs will be distributed between these companies. Steinhoff even has its own committee formed for Litigation. LdP is heading it.

2 - Creditor have a strong hold in the company due to the debt and do not see them taking a haircut to pay shareholders.
Yes agreed the creditors will support Steinhoff in this regard. Its in their best interest.

3 - The longer the claims hang around SNH neck the less the chance of recovery.
Yes agreed, the sooner these claims are solved the better chance of recovery. However it depends on the settlement. If the terms are crap for Steinhoff why would they want to settle? Rather defer it and defend it. As this is highly complex it unfortunatly will take months if not years to get all the claims out of the way. LdP mentioned this on the Investor day.

4 - I do believe this will be sorted soon because there is no other solution. Basically there is liquidation or settlement.
There is always another solution, I don't think a liquidation is on the table until 2021. No court in the world would liquidate a company to pay out lost value of shareholders and with this make thousands of people lose their jobs.

5 - As much as CW has a claim he is in turn being sued by shareholder class action claims. So how will this play out!!! Think he will have to answer the purchase of MF.
I think the best for CW is to drop the claim and try to invest into Steinhoff to gain in the long term. It would set a sample for the other claims that there is no to little hope of settlement. If CW drops his claim the share price will shoot into the sky that I can say for sure. This again would benefit CW as he still holds around 650 Million shares. Let's see if he tops up some more share at the prices.

6 - The only way is for all to sit and come to some agreement to allow the company to restructure and after paying debt down they can give dividends.
Yes agreed that would be the best scenario. However the lawyers want their part as well :/

Agree with summation.... Creditors will step in to protect their nest egg... Will not be a liquidation battle... Really believe a Delisting is in the cards and a relisting with creditors and claimants being allocated equity at a new market price during relisting..
Or pepko ipo will be for settlement of claimants...
A solution is in sight...

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[DayTraderDad]

So Conforama not alone.

 

https://www.reuters....SKCN1VA0F4?il=0

 

French retailer Casino targets further 2 billion euros of asset sales

[Tom]

No glowing, as I was right in the end about this share.

 

If it makes you happy, this thing burnt me badly. I'm still young ish..... but I'll never make this mistake again.

 

Yes Leo, you were right and you were right before many others see the correct picture.

 

However unfortunately many big financial institutions with their experience, easier and quicker access to the information that matters, manged to pick up this disastrous senario at its earlier stages, before the small investors could.

 

 

Needless to say that you should (if you haven't already) join the litigation in order to hopefully get the maximum compensation possible.

 

All the best for your future, and hopefully you will mange to avoid future disasters be it financial or personal.

[DayTraderDad]

Thanks Andi I agree. Looks like another fall USA waking up!!!

[andi222]

Hi DTD, 

 

regarding your points see my feedback.

 

1 - There is no money for litigation or payment for claims. The more money SNH spends in lawyers the less shareholders going to get.

Well I wouldn't say there is no money. If they liquidate today the biggest losers will be the creditors. Shareholders would only lose another 250 Million € (Market Cap currently) vs creditors would lose 9 Billion. Yes lawyers fees are high, however as I mentioned in my previous post Steinhoff is not alone on this. See how many parties are involved which also don't want to pay a cents- So I think the lawyers costs will be distributed between these companies. Steinhoff even has its own committee formed for Litigation. LdP is heading it.

 

2 - Creditor have a strong hold in the company due to the debt and do not see them taking a haircut to pay shareholders.

Yes agreed the creditors will support Steinhoff in this regard. Its in their best interest.

 

3 - The longer the claims hang around SNH neck the less the chance of recovery.

Yes agreed, the sooner these claims are solved the better chance of recovery. However it depends on the settlement. If the terms are crap for Steinhoff why would they want to settle? Rather defer it and defend it. As this is highly complex it unfortunatly will take months if not years to get all the claims out of the way. LdP mentioned this on the Investor day.

 

4 - I do believe this will be sorted soon because there is no other solution. Basically there is liquidation or settlement.

There is always another solution, I don't think a liquidation is on the table until 2021. No court in the world would liquidate a company to pay out lost value of shareholders and with this make thousands of people lose their jobs. 

 

5 - As much as CW has a claim he is in turn being sued by shareholder class action claims. So how will this play out!!! Think he will have to answer the purchase of MF.

I think the best for CW is to drop the claim and try to invest into Steinhoff to gain in the long term. It would set a sample for the other claims that there is no to little hope of settlement. If CW drops his claim the share price will shoot into the sky that I can say for sure. This again would benefit CW as he still holds around 650 Million shares. Let's see if he tops up some more share at the prices.

 

6 - The only way is for all to sit and come to some agreement to allow the company to restructure and after paying debt down they can give dividends.

Yes agreed that would be the best scenario. However the lawyers want their part as well :/

[DayTraderDad]

No glowing, as I was right in the end about this share.

 

If it makes you happy, this thing burnt me badly. I'm still young ish..... but I'll never make this mistake again.

Well you can only be right once the ends arrives. I don't believe SNH is finally dead. I agree it went down much more than I expected but dead not yet!!!

 

As you said you still young one thing for sure you will make many more mistakes be careful there are lots of SNH out there!!!