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#8021 Captainfrom82

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 04:43 PM

DTD, why do you think they would sell off more of their core business? That would make no sense at all.

 

Believe it or not Andi222, this was discussed with the creditors in the restructuring meeting between April 2018 and this year (almost every combination of the assets and possible restructuring was thrown around).  But  the creditors had concerns in investing in the Pepkor Africa business, and opted for the Pepkor Europe business. 

 

The Steinhoff strategic position definitely includes lightening the South African assets.  Whether they will be allowed to expatriate the funds from the sale is what is holding this up.

 

Regards

Captainfrom82


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#8022 andi222

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:43 PM

Get ready because I believe SNH still going to sell holding to 51% in Pepkor SA. Just my thoughts not to defraud people or scare anyone!!!

 

DTD, why do you think they would sell off more of their core business? That would make no sense at all.


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#8023 DayTraderDad

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:41 PM

Hi Polly, out of a business point of view it makes perfect sense for them to say they have basically nothing to do with Steinhoff etc due to the reputation. . .

 

But just think about it. Steinhoff could kick out all board members by not voting for them. (Fact) They could reappoint a whole new board. (Fact) And no one could stop them right? They have 70% controlling interest. 

 

Buuuuuut that would make absolutely no business sense to do this as it would be suicide for Steinhoff and Pepkor. 

 

I just want to stretch the point that Steinhoff has the control to kick out all board members if they want to. And no one could stop them. 

Get ready because I believe SNH still going to sell holding to 51% in Pepkor SA. Just my thoughts not to defraud people or scare anyone!!!


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#8024 andi222

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:41 PM

 agreed...but they have to play their cards right..

 

If not this will give CW more ammo to go for the jugular!!!

 

so hands tied either way!!

 

yeah I don't know if you have seen the interview with CW where he said that he raised the claim so that he has the same rights as creditors. I wonder what would have happened if he didn't put in the claim. Would the creditors have liquidated Steinhoff by now? 

 

Polly, just out of interest. Will you read the HJ results in detail? Or just scroll over them?


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#8025 Polly

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:36 PM

Hi Polly, out of a business point of view it makes perfect sense for them to say they have basically nothing to do with Steinhoff etc due to the reputation. . .

 

But just think about it. Steinhoff could kick out all board members by not voting for them. (Fact) They could reappoint a whole new board. (Fact) And no one could stop them right? They have 70% controlling interest. 

 

Buuuuuut that would make absolutely no business sense to do this as it would be suicide for Steinhoff and Pepkor. 

 

I just want to stretch the point that Steinhoff has the control to kick out all board members if they want to. And no one could stop them. 

 agreed...but they have to play their cards right..

 

If not this will give CW more ammo to go for the jugular!!!

 

so hands tied either way!!


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#8026 andi222

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:33 PM

 

The Pepkor group has done many things to emphasise its independence from Steinhoff, CEO Leon Lourens told Fin24 on Monday.

This includes the refinancing of the Steinhoff shareholder funding and release from related financial guarantees; the name change to Pepkor; and publishing of the 2018 audited results which confirmed that Pepkor’s accounts are above suspicion, the group said in an earlier statement. 

In addition, Pepkor will now fund its own credit books for the JD Group and Capfin, and has agreed to terminate its existing commercial relationship with Century Capital (Fulcrum), in a phased approach.

Pepkor will, therefore, take control of the funding of financial services provided to Pepkor customers, and maintain the same profitability insofar as it relates to Pepkor’s financial services operations.

 

Steinhoff 'doesn't influence how we run our business'

"Although Steinhoff has a big share in Pepkor, it does not influence how we run our business independently.

"We disentangled ourselves from Steinhoff and there is very little left of the 'corporate noise' we encountered during the financial year," said Lourens.

"Sometimes one did not know what to expect when you got to the office in the morning, but we dealt with most of it and we now focus on the retail side of the business - which is essentially what we are, we are retailers."

He said Pepkor understood the need in the market for the group to be more open and transparent, and where possible it will try to do more of that.

Board 'more well-balanced'

"From a governance point of view, for instance, we recomposed the board and we think it is well-balanced now," he said.

He emphasised that there had never been any issues with Pepkor per se – it had all been "contamination" from Steinhoff events.

'Disentangled' from Steinhoff

Pepkor was "disentangled" from Steinhoff, he said, despite Steinhoff having a 71% share in the business.

"We are pretty much disentangled from Steinhoff now.

"We cannot downplay that Steinhoff has a 71% shareholding in our business, but from a decision-making point of view and a business point of view, we take our own decisions.

"Steinhoff only has three members out of the 12 on our board. Our board is fully independent," said Lourens.

"We learnt a lot of lessons from the Steinhoff saga. We learnt what not to do. The culture of a business is built up through a history and must be based on the right norms and values, which must be protected. We got dragged into the Steinhoff thing, but despite all of that, we still have a great culture."

He said all in all, despite all the "distractions", Pepkor had had a good year and good results, the current challenging economic environment notwithstanding. He is very positive about the future.

"In fact, we are still growing and gaining some market share and our operating profit is good, although we would have liked to have seen it doing better. We have great brands like Pep, Ackermans, Russells and Bradlows, which are trusted among SA consumers," said Lourens.

Regarding the ongoing legal battle between Pepkor and the founder and former management of Tekkie Town, Lourens said the matter would still be going to full court next year.

Given a recent interim interdict granted to Pepkor relating to certain stock which may not be sold in Mr Tekkie stores, Lourens is hopeful of a good legal outcome for Pepkor.

"Tekkie Town is trading well and has an established management team. We are happy with its performance."

 

 

Hi Polly, out of a business point of view it makes perfect sense for them to say they have basically nothing to do with Steinhoff etc due to the reputation. . .

 

But just think about it. Steinhoff could kick out all board members by not voting for them. (Fact) They could reappoint a whole new board. (Fact) And no one could stop them right? They have 70% controlling interest. 

 

Buuuuuut that would make absolutely no business sense to do this as it would be suicide for Steinhoff and Pepkor. 

 

I just want to stretch the point that Steinhoff has the control to kick out all board members if they want to. And no one could stop them. 


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#8027 Investment novice

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:23 PM


The Pepkor group has done many things to emphasise its independence from Steinhoff, CEO Leon Lourens told Fin24 on Monday.

This includes the refinancing of the Steinhoff shareholder funding and release from related financial guarantees; the name change to Pepkor; and publishing of the 2018 audited results which confirmed that Pepkor’s accounts are above suspicion, the group said in an earlier statement.

In addition, Pepkor will now fund its own credit books for the JD Group and Capfin, and has agreed to terminate its existing commercial relationship with Century Capital (Fulcrum), in a phased approach.

Pepkor will, therefore, take control of the funding of financial services provided to Pepkor customers, and maintain the same profitability insofar as it relates to Pepkor’s financial services operations.


Steinhoff 'doesn't influence how we run our business'

"Although Steinhoff has a big share in Pepkor, it does not influence how we run our business independently.

"We disentangled ourselves from Steinhoff and there is very little left of the 'corporate noise' we encountered during the financial year," said Lourens.

"Sometimes one did not know what to expect when you got to the office in the morning, but we dealt with most of it and we now focus on the retail side of the business - which is essentially what we are, we are retailers."

He said Pepkor understood the need in the market for the group to be more open and transparent, and where possible it will try to do more of that.

Board 'more well-balanced'

"From a governance point of view, for instance, we recomposed the board and we think it is well-balanced now," he said.

He emphasised that there had never been any issues with Pepkor per se – it had all been "contamination" from Steinhoff events.

'Disentangled' from Steinhoff

Pepkor was "disentangled" from Steinhoff, he said, despite Steinhoff having a 71% share in the business.

"We are pretty much disentangled from Steinhoff now.

"We cannot downplay that Steinhoff has a 71% shareholding in our business, but from a decision-making point of view and a business point of view, we take our own decisions.

"Steinhoff only has three members out of the 12 on our board. Our board is fully independent," said Lourens.

"We learnt a lot of lessons from the Steinhoff saga. We learnt what not to do. The culture of a business is built up through a history and must be based on the right norms and values, which must be protected. We got dragged into the Steinhoff thing, but despite all of that, we still have a great culture."


He said all in all, despite all the "distractions", Pepkor had had a good year and good results, the current challenging economic environment notwithstanding. He is very positive about the future.

"In fact, we are still growing and gaining some market share and our operating profit is good, although we would have liked to have seen it doing better. We have great brands like Pep, Ackermans, Russells and Bradlows, which are trusted among SA consumers," said Lourens.

Regarding the ongoing legal battle between Pepkor and the founder and former management of Tekkie Town, Lourens said the matter would still be going to full court next year.

Given a recent interim interdict granted to Pepkor relating to certain stock which may not be sold in Mr Tekkie stores, Lourens is hopeful of a good legal outcome for Pepkor.

"Tekkie Town is trading well and has an established management team. We are happy with its performance."


Its bold to talk about the board. Mr Naidoo still there despite his interesting and yet to be further interrogated lancaster self enrichment scheme

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#8028 Polly

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:20 PM

Hi Polly, I don't exactly agree with you here that Steinhoff does not have control over Pepkor Africa. Yes agreed they only get dividends, however they can vote whoever needs to sit on the board at the AGM. And thus they have control over the assets etc. 

The Pepkor group has done many things to emphasise its independence from Steinhoff, CEO Leon Lourens told Fin24 on Monday.

This includes the refinancing of the Steinhoff shareholder funding and release from related financial guarantees; the name change to Pepkor; and publishing of the 2018 audited results which confirmed that Pepkor’s accounts are above suspicion, the group said in an earlier statement. 

In addition, Pepkor will now fund its own credit books for the JD Group and Capfin, and has agreed to terminate its existing commercial relationship with Century Capital (Fulcrum), in a phased approach.

Pepkor will, therefore, take control of the funding of financial services provided to Pepkor customers, and maintain the same profitability insofar as it relates to Pepkor’s financial services operations.

 

Steinhoff 'doesn't influence how we run our business'

"Although Steinhoff has a big share in Pepkor, it does not influence how we run our business independently.

"We disentangled ourselves from Steinhoff and there is very little left of the 'corporate noise' we encountered during the financial year," said Lourens.

"Sometimes one did not know what to expect when you got to the office in the morning, but we dealt with most of it and we now focus on the retail side of the business - which is essentially what we are, we are retailers."

He said Pepkor understood the need in the market for the group to be more open and transparent, and where possible it will try to do more of that.

Board 'more well-balanced'

"From a governance point of view, for instance, we recomposed the board and we think it is well-balanced now," he said.

He emphasised that there had never been any issues with Pepkor per se – it had all been "contamination" from Steinhoff events.

'Disentangled' from Steinhoff

Pepkor was "disentangled" from Steinhoff, he said, despite Steinhoff having a 71% share in the business.

"We are pretty much disentangled from Steinhoff now.

"We cannot downplay that Steinhoff has a 71% shareholding in our business, but from a decision-making point of view and a business point of view, we take our own decisions.

"Steinhoff only has three members out of the 12 on our board. Our board is fully independent," said Lourens.

"We learnt a lot of lessons from the Steinhoff saga. We learnt what not to do. The culture of a business is built up through a history and must be based on the right norms and values, which must be protected. We got dragged into the Steinhoff thing, but despite all of that, we still have a great culture."

He said all in all, despite all the "distractions", Pepkor had had a good year and good results, the current challenging economic environment notwithstanding. He is very positive about the future.

"In fact, we are still growing and gaining some market share and our operating profit is good, although we would have liked to have seen it doing better. We have great brands like Pep, Ackermans, Russells and Bradlows, which are trusted among SA consumers," said Lourens.

Regarding the ongoing legal battle between Pepkor and the founder and former management of Tekkie Town, Lourens said the matter would still be going to full court next year.

Given a recent interim interdict granted to Pepkor relating to certain stock which may not be sold in Mr Tekkie stores, Lourens is hopeful of a good legal outcome for Pepkor.

"Tekkie Town is trading well and has an established management team. We are happy with its performance."


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#8029 andi222

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 03:04 PM

and you obviously didnt listen to my advise on PEP Africa on getting to you EBITDA and to a lesser extent PEP Europe!!

 

Hi Polly, I don't exactly agree with you here that Steinhoff does not have control over Pepkor Africa. Yes agreed they only get dividends, however they can vote whoever needs to sit on the board at the AGM. And thus they have control over the assets etc. 


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#8030 andi222

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:56 PM

Hi Polly, yeah auditors will have the final say. Half year results won't be audited so will only be applicable for the 2019 audit.


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#8031 Polly

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:53 PM

Thanks for the response A...Ok lets agree to disagree as i think that  will be left  in hand of auditors to have the final say...especially if the PS wants to have the cleanest balance sheet around..  

 

i cant see anything besides a disclaimer cos its a contingent liability/ies and material enough  to company going forward!!


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#8032 andi222

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:46 PM

Hi Polly, yes agreed the Litigation and tax treatments will take numerous years to be solved. However in my post I said the going concern of Steinhoff is secured for the next three years. Due to the CVA (if implemented)

There are three categories of going concerns:

 

When conducting their going concern assessment, the directors will have to evaluate which of three potential conclusions is appropriate to the circumstances of the company. In particular they may conclude that:

  • 1- There are no material uncertainties that may cast significant doubt about the company’s ability to continue as a going concern;
  • 2- There are material uncertainties related to events or conditions that may cast significant doubt about the company’s ability to continue as a going concern but the use of the going concern basis remains appropriate; or
  • 3- The use of the going concern is not appropriate.

So Steinhoff will be on number 2 of the above. Again just my own opinion. Litigations and tax are like a dark cloud above Steinhoff, otherwise the share wouldn't be sitting at 8 cents. . . 


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#8033 DayTraderDad

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:45 PM

I doubt that they were leaked. Just look at 2017 and 2018 release. Price increased slightly a week before release day and then dropped after release. (Numbers where not good). This time around we do not have any run up so far so my guess is that this time it's different also with regards to the numbers. I mean if we have a profit, CVA is implemented, we have a positive NAV, reporting timeline is on track again you will see how big investment houses will jump into this share. 

 

Then going concern is secured for three years. Just think about it. If Steinhoff can manage to generate an EBITDA of say for example 1,1 Billion euro. Now subtracting D&A (200 mil), Finance cost (650 Mil) we can likely get to a profit of 200 Mil. That's basically the Market Cap at the moment. Just a thought. Again that's my own opinion and no recommendation to buy or sell.

Hi Andi think the post you put up yesterday had a good explanation further think results have not leaked otherwise we would have seen a reaction either way. Unless they were leaked way back.

 

I agree think this time round things are different people on sidelines waiting!!! Maybe a run up at close people positioning themselves!!!


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#8034 Polly

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:29 PM

again you seem to be right P.....threats have started haha....im backing down of fear what i might do that i will regret

 Make that Polly 9  Opposition 0 Lionel!!!  :D


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#8035 Polly

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:26 PM

and DTF i could reply with another one page article to your recent nappy wets...But not worth it..

 

I leave it to the other forum members in this thread to decide who is the liar , misinformer blah blah..

 

and as for the racists comment heres what your nappy changer posted  a few months ago and i quote :

 

. " This is a classic bait and switch or misdirection tactic that is used extensively by those who wish to misinform.  It was used by the Nazis and many illegitimate "authorities". and still being used by the Jews There is nothing like having your enemies lose credibility." 

 

So you have  to be Jewish sorry!!!  thats why i keep on saying get a mirror!! Whatever you attack/insult with is a clear reflection of yourself!!!

 

​and the worst part is : You still think your right!!!


Edited by Polly, 11 July 2019 - 02:28 PM.

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#8036 Polly

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:09 PM

and you obviously didnt listen to my advise on PEP Africa on getting to you EBITDA and to a lesser extent PEP Europe!!


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#8037 Polly

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:05 PM

I doubt that they were leaked. Just look at 2017 and 2018 release. Price increased slightly a week before release day and then dropped after release. (Numbers where not good). This time around we do not have any run up so far so my guess is that this time it's different also with regards to the numbers. I mean if we have a profit, CVA is implemented, we have a positive NAV, reporting timeline is on track again you will see how big investment houses will jump into this share. 

 

Then going concern is secured for three years. Just think about it. If Steinhoff can manage to generate an EBITDA of say for example 1,1 Billion euro. Now subtracting D&A (200 mil), Finance cost (650 Mil) we can likely get to a profit of 200 Mil. That's basically the Market Cap at the moment. Just a thought. Again that's my own opinion and no recommendation to buy or sell.

 

Andi sorry to post o this thread as there are lotsa haters of alternative views BUT:

 

Give me one good reason why you think going concern will be resolved soon??

I know you will say cva blah blah approved...yes but do you think that is sufficeint for the going concern to be resolved? 

Go see this post :

 

Machine#curious, on 27 Jun 2019 - 3:35 PM, said:snapback.png

The uncertainties listed and explained in

the Audit Opinion in the 2017 Annual Report

were:

1. Material uncertainty relating to going

concern

2. Material uncertainty with respect to

litigation

3. Material uncertainty with respect to

taxation effects on the restatements and

adjustments

4. Material uncertainty with respect to the

control conclusion on certain entities

5. Material uncertainties with respect to the

share in the investment in Conforama

6. Material uncertainty with respect to

the timing of recording adjustments

following the restatements

7. Material uncertainty with respect to the

timing of certain real estate transactions

8. Material uncertainty with respect to the

foreign currency translation reserve

9. Material uncertainty with respect to

not having access to information (kika-

Leiner)

Uncertainty number 6 (timing) related to the

2017 Reporting Period and was therefore

not included in the 2018 Audit Opinion. The

rest have been repeated in the 2018 Audit

Opinion. It is anticipated that, subject to

the professional judgement of the external

auditor when forming an opinion on the

financial year, uncertainties numbered

4, 7 and 9 will also fall away in the 2019

Reporting Period. The uncertainties detailed

in numbers 1, 2, 3, 5 and 8 will take longer to

resolve.

 

Hi - see the last sentence...it's from the annual report page 26...2019 still going to have disclaimers...

 

Now the general consensus by almost all on this thread and yourself it will take at least 10 years for the claim to be sorted...You'lls opinions not mine...So using you'll words i say it will take at least 10 years for the going concern problem to be sorted.. :)

 

Simple and straight forward opinion using consensus from this thread!!....

 

 

 

 

 

watch the insults...anyone got a mirror to send to youll know who.... :ph34r:


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#8038 andi222

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 01:39 PM

I also have tomorrow as D-Day

 

Nothing moving like we normally have. Low volume also.

The figures are either;

- Not leaked(unlikely)

- Leaked and not good

 

The 2022 bond price is up the last week, they might know something.

 

https://markets.busi...22-xs1272162584

 

I doubt that they were leaked. Just look at 2017 and 2018 release. Price increased slightly a week before release day and then dropped after release. (Numbers where not good). This time around we do not have any run up so far so my guess is that this time it's different also with regards to the numbers. I mean if we have a profit, CVA is implemented, we have a positive NAV, reporting timeline is on track again you will see how big investment houses will jump into this share. 

 

Then going concern is secured for three years. Just think about it. If Steinhoff can manage to generate an EBITDA of say for example 1,1 Billion euro. Now subtracting D&A (200 mil), Finance cost (650 Mil) we can likely get to a profit of 200 Mil. That's basically the Market Cap at the moment. Just a thought. Again that's my own opinion and no recommendation to buy or sell.


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#8039 Bubble

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 01:26 PM

@Chris 101

 

am I missing something...why do you say today is the big day? (isn't H1 update due tomorrow?)

 

regards

 

I also have tomorrow as D-Day

 

Nothing moving like we normally have. Low volume also.

The figures are either;

- Not leaked(unlikely)

- Leaked and not good

 

The 2022 bond price is up the last week, they might know something.

 

https://markets.busi...22-xs1272162584


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#8040 Lionelza1

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 11:13 AM

Ok you win. I finally have confirmation that I need to identify that Lionel! and Polly are actually the same person.

Character portrait in common:

1 . The need to always be right
2 - The need to show how much one has indicating a inferiority complex
3 - No respect for others and like to insult people.

So it is now confirmed what I always said Polly/Lionel and maybe even TOM are identities of one person which is a thread TROLL.

No point to have any further discussion from my side because its impossible to have a useful discussion with a person that needs HELP!!!

Enjoy you matchbox trucks hope the postman will not be late!!! Also don't forget to have a nice day and get HELP ASAP!!!!


No my friend, I joined this forum to learn as I am dof!, NOT to sound/be right. I have gained some knowledge from every1 that has participated and believe it or not you as well.

However, the amount of lies and bullshit and now threats, does not justify the time I spend on this forum which now makes it a complete and utter waste of my time

Cheers and goodluck
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