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Steinhoff


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#9621 Polly

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 02:17 PM

Just to give you guys something to think about:

 

1 - KAP the only thing it contributes to SNH cash flow is the dividends which the last one was R0.23. So that means a return in investment of 3.34% yet SNH paying 6% to 10 % interest.

2 - The prospects of KAP share price taking off into the sky is limited so growth will be limited however we know the SA economy is in a bad shape.

3 - There is a strong possibility of a further downgrade of SA to junk status very soon which will possibly take the Rand to R18 to the Euro.

 

So for any astute business man it is a no brainer this was the best route to take and has nothing to do with bankruptcy etc.

 

 

quit dreaming.....any bad news is good news for you!!  told u if company is liquidated tomorrow via a sens announcement , that will be good news too....

 

 

The most liquid asset was sold for a reason....and then read " precarious position"


Edited by Polly, 27 March 2019 - 02:20 PM.

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#9622 Polly

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 02:16 PM

Hi Captain you wasting your breath and time TOM is part of the TROLL group ( one of the Mini Mi's)  they follow around on various shares forums.

wow...leave youll for a few hours and pumpers going to town....and the kinder garden kid himself having a ball....

 

Grow up kido....the only troller here is you....told you that months ago...

 

Anyway got one question for the Guru master..

 

1. You say SNH has debt about E9.4b +-...Is this a fact ? as of today??


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#9623 DayTraderDad

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 02:12 PM

If company liquidated assets sold for nothing..i have no interest in how share goes except i do hope for those down and for people who didn't sell out and their life savings it comes right..but what else are they to do..they had take some action...cant sit and hope retail worldwide suddenly going spurt up cause thats never going be instant..I thonk they did right thing...they need shrink business get rid dead wood, clean up as much debt as possible..and start fresh..with my business would rather sell something then sit with hectic debt hanging over my head..but each to their own...

Just to give you guys something to think about:

 

1 - KAP the only thing it contributes to SNH cash flow is the dividends which the last one was R0.23. So that means a return in investment of 3.34% yet SNH paying 6% to 10 % interest.

2 - The prospects of KAP share price taking off into the sky is limited so growth will be limited however we know the SA economy is in a bad shape.

3 - There is a strong possibility of a further downgrade of SA to junk status very soon which will possibly take the Rand to R18 to the Euro.

 

So for any astute business man it is a no brainer this was the best route to take and has nothing to do with bankruptcy etc.


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#9624 Midas1

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 01:41 PM

If company liquidated assets sold for nothing..i have no interest in how share goes except i do hope for those down and for people who didn't sell out and their life savings it comes right..but what else are they to do..they had take some action...cant sit and hope retail worldwide suddenly going spurt up cause thats never going be instant..I thonk they did right thing...they need shrink business get rid dead wood, clean up as much debt as possible..and start fresh..with my business would rather sell something then sit with hectic debt hanging over my head..but each to their own...
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#9625 Tom

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 01:15 PM

"

...

Steinhoff selling good SA assets to cover bad debt in Europe where Jooste and his cronies stole billions.

Shareholders/creditors/stockholders (persons/entities who have lodged claims) need to STOP Steinhoff from selling any assets by order of a court a.s.a.p. or there will be zero valuable assets very soon.

...

"

 


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#9626 DayTraderDad

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:51 PM

Hi Captain, Have you heard when is the court hearing? Regards, DTD
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#9627 DayTraderDad

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:44 PM

We  contacted Steinhoff (in writing).  They responded that they do not see this as a Steinhoff non-performance as this was a ""credit default swap" involving outside parties.

 

Best Regards

Ho thank you I also emailed them but got no response. I thought has much that there must be a reason this went to the DC.


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#9628 Captainfrom82

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:41 PM

Hi Captain,

 

I guess they cannot talk much until the court hearing this week is completed.

 

On 29th there is also going to be a decisions on whether they have to pay the coupon on a 800 mil bond - 2025 at interest of 1.87%

You can read it on these link:

https://www.cdsdeter...aps-management/

https://www.cdsdeter...nt-22-03-19.pdf

 

Insert from above document: " The DC resolved to meet again to discuss next steps in relation to settlement on Friday 29 March 2019."

 

Dont know if this will be also paid by the KAP share sale.

 

We  contacted Steinhoff (in writing).  They responded that they do not see this as a Steinhoff non-performance as this was a ""credit default swap" involving outside parties.

 

Best Regards


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#9629 DayTraderDad

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:41 PM

Hi Tom,

 

All your posts have a similar theme.  You are not as virulent as Polly, but you certainly share his views.   

 

In summary, you do not believe that Steinhoff is sustainable and in fact you see this business as "bankrupt".  I have previously asked if you understand what the word "bankrupt" actually means.  You have chosen to ignore the request(s).  I ask you again, what in your opinion is a "bankruptcy"? 

 

Is it some vague process or business status that is open to interpretation?  Or is there a defining moment that a business can be deemed "bankrupt".

 

While you are considering your response to this, I have another question for you. 

 

You are aware that Steinhoff has approximately E9.4b debt.  Tell me, why are over 90% of the lenders agreeable towards the LUA and CVA.  Why is there not a single counter argument from the large shareholders? 

 

What do you think that they know, that you are not aware of? 

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

Hi Captain you wasting your breath and time TOM is part of the TROLL group ( one of the Mini Mi's)  they follow around on various shares forums.


Edited by DayTraderDad, 27 March 2019 - 12:41 PM.

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#9630 DayTraderDad

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:37 PM

Hi DTD,

 

Correct!!

 

My notes this morning to Polly referred to this value of E252m for both the NAV impact as well as the revenue impact.  For the latter I estimated the  contribution of KAP based on the proportion of 252/834 = 30% x E47m = E14m (being Share of profit of equity accounted companies).  That is the estimate of what KAP contributed to 1H18 income before tax.  Remember  this is equity accounted so no operating costs etc involved.

 

That E14m out of the E340m sustainable earnings that Steinhoff provided = to the 4.7%

 

But I wish that Steinhoff would issue a clearer guidance on what the funds will be spent on.  Their guidance is that

 

"Steinhoff intends applying the proceeds from the sale of the Placing Shares to meeting its various obligations, including (but not limited to) those arising from its announced debt restructuring process, and to ensuring its business platforms are appropriately funded.".

 

Is that the LSW settlement or not?  make up your own minds. 

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

Hi Captain,

 

I guess they cannot talk much until the court hearing this week is completed.

 

On 29th there is also going to be a decisions on whether they have to pay the coupon on a 800 mil bond - 2025 at interest of 1.87%

You can read it on these link:

https://www.cdsdeter...aps-management/

https://www.cdsdeter...nt-22-03-19.pdf

 

Insert from above document: " The DC resolved to meet again to discuss next steps in relation to settlement on Friday 29 March 2019."

 

Dont know if this will be also paid by the KAP share sale.


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#9631 Tom

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:33 PM

The reason why LSW (Seifert) don't want to go with the extra 10% interest rate offered by Steinhoff to the creditors, in exchange for them waiting 3 years, is probably Saifert applies his knowledge of Steinhoff, and believes that bankrupt Steinhoff won't be able to pay in 3 years, and he doesn't want to wait another 3 year years for the coming restrucutring, and he doesn't want anymore to be related to them, an doesn't want anything to do with their fraud.


Edited by Tom, 27 March 2019 - 12:36 PM.

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#9632 Tom

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:28 PM

So Steinhoff sold KAP at 10% less then the yesterday closing price.

Well they have to, as their bank accounts are dry, and the creditor wouldn't give them more debt, and their business is just burning cash, where else then will they pay for their expensive so called debt restructuring (should be called debt ballooning).

 

 


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#9633 Captainfrom82

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:13 PM

Unless they opt to sell their loss making assets at discount, but they don't seam to be finding buys yet, so they should just offer it a lower discount.

 

Hi Tom,

 

All your posts have a similar theme.  You are not as virulent as Polly, but you certainly share his views.   

 

In summary, you do not believe that Steinhoff is sustainable and in fact you see this business as "bankrupt".  I have previously asked if you understand what the word "bankrupt" actually means.  You have chosen to ignore the request(s).  I ask you again, what in your opinion is a "bankruptcy"? 

 

Is it some vague process or business status that is open to interpretation?  Or is there a defining moment that a business can be deemed "bankrupt".

 

While you are considering your response to this, I have another question for you. 

 

You are aware that Steinhoff has approximately E9.4b debt.  Tell me, why are over 90% of the lenders agreeable towards the LUA and CVA.  Why is there not a single counter argument from the large shareholders? 

 

What do you think that they know, that you are not aware of? 

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82


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#9634 Captainfrom82

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:02 PM

Interesting: In 31 March 2018 accounts Note 8 page 63 KAP was valued at Em 252 and sold for Em 293 a Em 41 profit?

 

Hi DTD,

 

Correct!!

 

My notes this morning to Polly referred to this value of E252m for both the NAV impact as well as the revenue impact.  For the latter I estimated the  contribution of KAP based on the proportion of 252/834 = 30% x E47m = E14m (being Share of profit of equity accounted companies).  That is the estimate of what KAP contributed to 1H18 income before tax.  Remember  this is equity accounted so no operating costs etc involved.

 

That E14m out of the E340m sustainable earnings that Steinhoff provided = to the 4.7%

 

But I wish that Steinhoff would issue a clearer guidance on what the funds will be spent on.  Their guidance is that

 

"Steinhoff intends applying the proceeds from the sale of the Placing Shares to meeting its various obligations, including (but not limited to) those arising from its announced debt restructuring process, and to ensuring its business platforms are appropriately funded.".

 

Is that the LSW settlement or not?  make up your own minds. 

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82


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#9635 Midas1

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 11:53 AM

Well well well just took look your guys shares and very positive reaction..great stuff for you longs..
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#9636 DayTraderDad

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 11:34 AM

Interesting: In 31 March 2018 accounts Note 8 page 63 KAP was valued at Em 252 and sold for Em 293 a Em 41 profit?
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#9637 DayTraderDad

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 10:11 AM

 

Posted Yesterday, 05:52 PM

JK001, on 26 Mar 2019 - 5:44 PM, said:snapback.png

Haha lovely could have not been better!!!!

 

 

 

This thread is tainted..Post in appropriate Delta thread and ill respond!! 

 

Don't worry I posted myself warning you are a TROLL


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#9638 Tom

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 09:59 AM

The only option left should they need more cash for the coming huge expenses and legal battles, will be to sell shares in PEPKOR.

 

Unless they opt to sell their loss making assets at discount, but they don't seam to be finding buys yet, so they should just offer it a lower discount.


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#9639 DayTraderDad

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 09:55 AM

Hi Captain,

 

 

WARNING POLLY AND ITS MINI MI'S ARE TROLLS!!!! 

 

Best is to ignore them see below a good description of a Troll, 

 

An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Trolls delight in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.
 
A classic troll tries to make us believe that he is a skeptic. He is divisive and argumentative with need-to-be-right attitude, "searching for the truth", flaming discussion, and sometimes insulting people or provoking people to insult him. A troll is usually an expert in reusing the same words of its opponents and in turning it against them.
 
While he tries to present himself as a skeptic looking for truth ... his messages usually sound as if it is the responsibility of other forum members to provide evidence that what forum is all about is legitimate.
He (and in at least 90% of cases it is he) tries to start arguments and upset people.
 
Sometimes, he is skeptical, trying to scare people, trying to plant fear in their hearts. Sometimes, Internet troll is trying to spin conflicting information, is questioning in an insincere manner, flaming discussion, insulting people, turning people against each other, harassing forum members, ignoring warnings from forum moderators.
 
Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it, or to report a message to a forum moderator.  Negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.
 
Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash. 
 
When trolls are completely ignored they sometimes step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed. Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a moderator is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, we have to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself. For this reason the staff here often intervene, either with a warning in a thread, jailing one or more posts, sending private messages to offenders, and even banning people--temporarily or permanently--from these forums.

Edited by DayTraderDad, 27 March 2019 - 09:56 AM.

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#9640 Tom

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 09:48 AM

The only option left should they need more cash for the coming huge expenses and legal battles, will be to sell shares in PEPKOR.


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