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#9661 Lionelza1

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 06:13 AM

Yup...using good money to chase bad money which is never a good sign....catch 22 for snh, Doomed if they do, doomed if they don't...im surprised the up was somewhat maintained on tradegate last night.

Like u said, let's check markets reaction today

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if i relate to my business, its like selling off my new trucks (which will catch  higher return) to pay for bad debt, and then im left with the old unreliables to grow my business?.....not impossible but definately nothing to be excited about...infct it will take my business 10yrs back

 

To answer your question midas on why i buy snh, ive always maintained snh can fix itself, and ONLY management can fix that, to date i will NEVER praise what they have done thus far coz its their friggen job.....let them do something extraordinary i will sing them praises

 

hope against hope....odds stacked heavily against me, but should they turn around it ill be a good return....but i am certainly not fooling myself


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#9662 Lionelza1

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 05:58 AM

There you go.. The triple joker Gurus at it again...
Another nail in coffin here and the negative painted as positive with completely misleading info.....Unbelievable..
Local assets got value PSG , Kap and Pepkor...Overseas assets worth R1.00

Remember this i posted yesterday

Thats when the term " precarious position" kicks in..


and it did.........


There you go...Pyramids have to sell the good assets to pay for expenses and losses from bad assets...


The Gurus smiling and jumping last night hay....

and no one even knows what the book build price will fetch... ;)

Just the mention of word sell , and all gets excited.


Even if SNH goes into liquidation tomorrow , the Gurus will see it as a positive.... :D

Thats how pump works..and credit will be given to excellent management... :lol:


Lets watch MR M reaction today....................................!!!


I said beginning of the end...and it starts!!!!!!!!


Yup...using good money to chase bad money which is never a good sign....catch 22 for snh, Doomed if they do, doomed if they don't...im surprised the up was somewhat maintained on tradegate last night.

Like u said, let's check markets reaction today

Sent from my BLA-L29 using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app
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#9663 Midas1

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 05:11 AM

Hi Larry, hows shanghai..never been...im not big follower snh ins and outs..anf you could be right about bad reaction, but i see this as they squeezed for cash and trying raise some..so in that respect i would guess its a positive move..but as i say not expert snh and the whole cabosh is irregular, so want is the 'norm' for 'normal 'companies doesn't seem apply here...they on serious back foot and fightening for survival..but it isnt impossible. Still not buying here..but if you invested dont think id bail just yet..things hotting up..not quite sure if good or bad..but something gotta come to a head soonish...i certainly wouldn't be adding though if had shares..good luck...ps i really don't follow this much so please just take above as passing remark..but some action better than no action
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#9664 Polly

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 04:34 AM

There you go.. The triple joker Gurus at it again...

Another nail in coffin here and the negative painted as positive with completely misleading info.....Unbelievable..

Local assets got value PSG , Kap and Pepkor...Overseas assets worth R1.00

 

Remember this i posted yesterday

 

Thats when the term " precarious position" kicks in..

 

and it did.........

 

There you go...Pyramids have to sell the good assets to pay for expenses and losses from bad assets...

 

The Gurus smiling and jumping last night hay....

and no one even knows what the book build price will fetch... ;)

Just the mention of word sell , and all gets excited.

 

Even if SNH goes into liquidation tomorrow , the Gurus will see it as a positive.... :D

Thats how pump works..and credit will be given to excellent management... :lol:

 

Lets watch MR M reaction today....................................!!!

 

I said beginning of the end...and it starts!!!!!!!!


Edited by Polly, 27 March 2019 - 04:39 AM.

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#9665 LarryK

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 01:22 AM

Hi Midas
If I remember correctly the market has normally not reacted well to snh selling off shareholding.
Maybe due to reduced nav?
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#9666 Midas1

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 08:46 PM

Just seen sens re bookbuild.sounds positive
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#9667 DayTraderDad

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:59 PM

Talk about a bolt from the blue.  I was about to post my unhappiness about selling the family silver and all that, when I stumbled on your and DTD's speculation.  I hope that you guys are right. 

 

It is very ballpark to the LSW claim, isn't it?  If it is correct, that would be 2 from 2 Seifert vs MJ.

 

But considering the overall benefit, it would be HUGE.  I mean, if they settle with Seifert, it would mean that the LUA can be extended and the CVA legally signed.  The FY17 and FY18 financials will be signed and issued with auditors comments now the only short term concern.

 

The interest on the debt suddenly would be able to be capitalised after the 3 years.

 

The longer term restructuring plan  can then begin in earnest.

 

And the biggest benefit of all...Tom and Polly would be miserable!!!!

Haha lets keep fingers crossed but I have full confidence in the excellent management (there are very clever people there) team they will sort this out.


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#9668 JK001

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:57 PM

Talk about a bolt from the blue.  I was about to post my unhappiness about selling the family silver and all that, when I stumbled on your and DTD's speculation.  I hope that you guys are right. 

 

It is very ballpark to the LSW claim, isn't it?  If it is correct, that would be 2 from 2 Seifert vs MJ.

 

But considering the overall benefit, it would be HUGE.  I mean, if they settle with Seifert, it would mean that the LUA can be extended and the CVA legally signed.  The FY17 and FY18 financials will be signed and issued with auditors comments now the only short term concern.

 

The interest on the debt suddenly would be able to be capitalised after the 3 years.

 

The longer term restructuring plan  can then begin in earnest.

 

And the biggest benefit of all...Tom and Polly would be miserable!!!!

correction, more miserable.


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#9669 Captainfrom82

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:51 PM

Yeah true, would be around the exact amount haha. Probably a back-up plan.

 

Talk about a bolt from the blue.  I was about to post my unhappiness about selling the family silver and all that, when I stumbled on your and DTD's speculation.  I hope that you guys are right. 

 

It is very ballpark to the LSW claim, isn't it?  If it is correct, that would be 2 from 2 Seifert vs MJ.

 

But considering the overall benefit, it would be HUGE.  I mean, if they settle with Seifert, it would mean that the LUA can be extended and the CVA legally signed.  The FY17 and FY18 financials will be signed and issued with auditors comments now the only short term concern.

 

The interest on the debt suddenly would be able to be capitalised after the 3 years.

 

The longer term restructuring plan  can then begin in earnest.

 

And the biggest benefit of all...Tom and Polly would be miserable!!!!


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#9670 DayTraderDad

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:49 PM

It is interesting that you talk about settlement of the LSW claim.

 

According to the CVA a settlement can only take place through one of the following:

1. An instruction via the Courts

2. Settlement recommended by the Steinhoff Litigation Committee and approved by the Board

3. A final settlement approved by the majority of lenders.

 

It would seem that 2 and 3 above believe that Steinhoff' case is strong enough to want to go to Court for a decision.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

Yes I was think in those lines with an additional possibility that maybe they cannot get extensions and would be better to settle and implement the CVA soonest!! Maybe too far fetched.


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#9671 DayTraderDad

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:47 PM

Hi DTD,

 

Its a long question and and answer.  If I don't do it justice here, send me your private e-mail and I can update you away from this ShareChat platform.  Don't want to be accused of being a guru and all that.  I'm also not sure how much of an accounting boffin you are - you sound quite clued up.  But here goes...

 

A lot more than just impairments because of fraud is taking place on this adjustment reconciliation. 

1. Eg. correction of a legitimate accounting process where a Purchase Price Adjustment is required for Mattress Firm and Poundland (17.1);

2. impairments because the Goodwill and Intangibles carrying value is more than their realizable value [this is indirectly related to the fraud - a result of the higher WACC brought on by the fraud] (17.2 & 17.3);

3. Impairments of Property Plant and Equip (17.4) - this is the fraud on the Hemisphere properties

4. Correction of POCO from consolidation to Equity treatment (17.5) - not a direct fraud.  This was the Court decision, with Steinhoff only owning 50% and not having control

5. Correction of Habufa (17.6) consolidation to Equity treatment - again as far as I can tell, not a fraud but an incorrect interpretation and treatment incorrectly  treating Habufa as under Steinhoff control when it was not

6. All other transactions that did not fit into the above were accounted for as other - this is mostly (but not all fraud related)

 

Don't get too hung on about the Non-current assets being reclassified as current assets.  This is due because Steinhoff is in technical breach of its debt covenants and obligations, and the non-current liabilities is classified as current.  The amounts contra each other out, so there is no material impact overall.

 

Always remember the accounting equation of Assets = Equity + Liabilities

 

With that in mind, you see that the total assets impaired is € 12 334 (from previous € 36 670 to € 22 336).  

We need to get a corresponding € 12 334  adjustment to the Equity and Liabilities for the Accounting Equation to balance.  

For 1H17, the impact of the above asset impairments was € 10 943 for equities (€ 16 635 to € 5 692); and € 1 391 for total liabilities.  

Check: € 10 943  + € 1 391 = € 12 334

 

So the Balance Sheet has been mostly cleaned up if not entirely cleaned up.

 

All these impairments has to affect the Equity, and this is reflected on the statement of changes in equity on page 49 where see the correction of € 10 161.  The difference to the total impairments/adjustments is due to the deferred tax and other tax treatments.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

Thank you very much well explain now very clear to me.


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#9672 Captainfrom82

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:21 PM

I think it is to settle LSW just my guess!!

 

It is interesting that you talk about settlement of the LSW claim.

 

According to the CVA a settlement can only take place through one of the following:

1. An instruction via the Courts

2. Settlement recommended by the Steinhoff Litigation Committee and approved by the Board

3. A final settlement approved by the majority of lenders.

 

It would seem that 2 and 3 above believe that Steinhoff' case is strong enough to want to go to Court for a decision.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82


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#9673 Captainfrom82

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:07 PM

 

Hi Captain,

 

Thank you very much.

 

My understanding looking at the restatements in Note 17 of the account 31 March 2018 I see the following:

 
Page 83  - 31 March 2018 accounts
 
17.7 Other
Included in other restatements:
• Inflated income which has resulted in both operating profit and assets being overstated;
• Incorrect application of group accounting principles in the light of new factors;
• Disposition of assets without appropriate security, leading to concern regarding recoverability of
these assets;
• Incorrect classification of assets and liabilities;
• A reduction in treasury shares and dilutive instruments becoming anti-dilutive due to an operating
loss attributable to ordinary shareholders during the period; and
• Reclassification of non-current liabilities to current as a result of the impact of other restatements on debt covenants
 
In pages 76-77 Income statement – Restated 31 March 2017
 
Profit/(loss) for the period  - (941)
 
In pages 74-75 Balance Sheet – Restated 31 March 2017
 
Total Assets – (7229)
Liabilities = (335)   got this from liabilities – equity
 
Therefore total impairments to note 17.7 Other is (8495) 
 
So does this mean that enough impairments done?
 
Your comments appreciated.
 
Best Regards,
DTD

 

 

Hi DTD,

 

Its a long question and and answer.  If I don't do it justice here, send me your private e-mail and I can update you away from this ShareChat platform.  Don't want to be accused of being a guru and all that.  I'm also not sure how much of an accounting boffin you are - you sound quite clued up.  But here goes...

 

A lot more than just impairments because of fraud is taking place on this adjustment reconciliation. 

1. Eg. correction of a legitimate accounting process where a Purchase Price Adjustment is required for Mattress Firm and Poundland (17.1);

2. impairments because the Goodwill and Intangibles carrying value is more than their realizable value [this is indirectly related to the fraud - a result of the higher WACC brought on by the fraud] (17.2 & 17.3);

3. Impairments of Property Plant and Equip (17.4) - this is the fraud on the Hemisphere properties

4. Correction of POCO from consolidation to Equity treatment (17.5) - not a direct fraud.  This was the Court decision, with Steinhoff only owning 50% and not having control

5. Correction of Habufa (17.6) consolidation to Equity treatment - again as far as I can tell, not a fraud but an incorrect interpretation and treatment incorrectly  treating Habufa as under Steinhoff control when it was not

6. All other transactions that did not fit into the above were accounted for as other - this is mostly (but not all fraud related)

 

Don't get too hung on about the Non-current assets being reclassified as current assets.  This is due because Steinhoff is in technical breach of its debt covenants and obligations, and the non-current liabilities is classified as current.  The amounts contra each other out, so there is no material impact overall.

 

Always remember the accounting equation of Assets = Equity + Liabilities

 

With that in mind, you see that the total assets impaired is € 12 334 (from previous € 36 670 to € 22 336).  

We need to get a corresponding € 12 334  adjustment to the Equity and Liabilities for the Accounting Equation to balance.  

For 1H17, the impact of the above asset impairments was € 10 943 for equities (€ 16 635 to € 5 692); and € 1 391 for total liabilities.  

Check: € 10 943  + € 1 391 = € 12 334

 

So the Balance Sheet has been mostly cleaned up if not entirely cleaned up.

 

All these impairments has to affect the Equity, and this is reflected on the statement of changes in equity on page 49 where see the correction of € 10 161.  The difference to the total impairments/adjustments is due to the deferred tax and other tax treatments.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 


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#9674 DayTraderDad

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:17 PM

Market trend seemingly spelling the same story.... Pump and dump

Yes think its a short squeeze because there was nothing unexpected.


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#9675 Lionelza1

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:14 PM

Market trend seemingly spelling the same story.... Pump and dump
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#9676 andi222

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:13 PM

I think it is to settle LSW just my guess!!

 

Yeah true, would be around the exact amount haha. Probably a back-up plan.


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#9677 Lionelza1

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:12 PM

Hahaha funny.... I'm taking the high road on this boys and girls.... Its very easy when u hide behind Sharechat...me I got absolutely nothing to hide
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#9678 DayTraderDad

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:58 PM

They planning to raise around 5 billion rand. Close to the Market Cap of Steinhoff currently lol.

I think it is to settle LSW just my guess!!


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#9679 DayTraderDad

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:52 PM

Told you before Maths resembles 'uhhh let me think - clue >> ' https://www.youtube....h?v=6lCSaLPNT2I

 

Same goes for DLT, divi is closer to 15% than 20%, and you stated that buildings are in top condition ', you mean similar to Eskom right?',

 

"Thomas Tebele, representing the landlords Delta Property Fund running correctional services' Poyntons Building tried in vain to negotiate with Mayor Solly Msimanga to avoid the high-rise building being shut down for non-compliance with fire and evacuation regulations. Video: Jonisayi Maromo / ANA"

https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/pics-msimanga-shuts-down-non-compliant-correctional-services-head-office-17034663

 

So, let's summarize:

Divi down about 25%,

occupation rate down 15%

margins are flat

Some buildings already unsafe for occupation - (trend?)

Goverment  Social spend will soon exceed income generated - Debt already over affordability level.

 

I think P and Minni Me, not adequate.  Let's go for pinky and the braindead?

Haha lovely could have not been better!!!!


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#9680 andi222

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:50 PM

They planning to raise around 5 billion rand. Close to the Market Cap of Steinhoff currently lol.


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