15225 replies to this topic

[Lionelza1]

KAP down 7.5%....opportunity to get in? Market trend up over the yrs

[Tom]

They have no option now but to sell good assets, since simply there are no buyers for the loss making ones.

Unless they exchange debt for equity, but that will not give them cash to get their fat salaries.

[Tom]

So backrupt Steinhoff is still bankrupt, and after more than one year 3 moths of the implosion, and their "turn around opportunity" presentations, I see no turn arounds yet. And they still claim that if they were given 3 years even at a huge 10% interest rate they would turn it around.

[JK001]

You can’t afford my services Polly, post it yourself

[Polly]

Posted Yesterday, 05:52 PM

JK001, on 26 Mar 2019 - 5:44 PM, said:

Told you before Maths resembles 'uhhh let me think - clue >> ' https://www.youtube....h?v=6lCSaLPNT2I

 

Same goes for DLT, divi is closer to 15% than 20%, and you stated that buildings are in top condition ', you mean similar to Eskom right?',

 

"Thomas Tebele, representing the landlords Delta Property Fund running correctional services' Poyntons Building tried in vain to negotiate with Mayor Solly Msimanga to avoid the high-rise building being shut down for non-compliance with fire and evacuation regulations. Video: Jonisayi Maromo / ANA"

https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/pics-msimanga-shuts-down-non-compliant-correctional-services-head-office-17034663

 

So, let's summarize:

Divi down about 25%,

occupation rate down 15%

margins are flat

Some buildings already unsafe for occupation - (trend?)

Goverment  Social spend will soon exceed income generated - Debt already over affordability level.

 

I think P and Minni Me, not adequate.  Let's go for pinky and the braindead?

Haha lovely could have not been better!!!!

 

 

 

This thread is tainted..Post in appropriate Delta thread and ill respond!! 

[Lionelza1]

not a bad price......
any discount of less than 15% is excellent!!

Sold at roughly R6. 83/share.....kap shares traded around that price around 2016

Lets check market reaction

Sent from my BLA-L29 using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Polly]

Kap shares oversubscribed sold at 9.6% discount.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

not a bad price......

any discount of less than 15% is excellent!!

[Polly]

Captainfrom82, on 27 Mar 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:

Polly, this starting to get tiresome!  Agreed , for every pump there has to be a dump..no one else here prepared to make negative comments / give thye alternative view because  you know why... simple

 

Yes, it is never a good idea to sell your productive assets.  In this case, you have to question if they are getting something far better from the proceeds.  We do not know this yet.  Maybe it is the LSW settlement, maybe not.  If the former I would argue that it is VERY good business.  If the latter, I would agree with you.  Snh does not have a choice. only option available

 

Few points to place the matter into context: Source for all figures below is the 1H18 unaudited financial statements released on 28 June 2018

 

1. Polly, You mention PSG.  How much of PSG is till owned by Steinhoff Polly?  You do realise that Steinhoff does not own any shares in PSG anymore, right? Thanks for that...i knew they owned some and sold it later in a  bookbuid but never thought sold all.. This actually makes them in a worse position in my view..Now only kap and Pepkor left.  Pep i dont think they can touch as Wiese in all likelihood wants it back in my opinion. 

I told you many a time im not an investor in SNH . Unlike you  because i think its a crap business in abig hole. , i never dissected the accounts or looked at any models.. Told you this over and over again. My valuation is and  isay it again backward looking using streetwise tactics and  experience of companies where fraud occured. All these forward looking figures doesn't interest me.. Said it from Day 1

 

2. You say that the overseas assets are worth R1.00.  What is your source for this value?    Again i posted that if i was to make an offfer for Snh , i will place a value of R1.00 on all overseas assets and my offer will be on the good SA businesses only which means pepkor and Kap.

Overseas businesses are all bleeding , cash stripped , fraudulently inflated income  which i still think is the tip or the iceberg and more to be revealed over time. hence reason for selling KAP as they have no other alternative to finance those losses of the overseas businesses. Again my opinion.

 

Do you realise that South African Assets make up approximately 34% of Bob Current Assets and 40% of Current Assets, right?  However, you would need to factor in that Star/Pepkor was consolidated whereas Steinhoff only own around 71%.  A truer representation of African operations would be closer to 30% of assets (and I am being generous to SA operations here).  In effect, overseas operations would make up over Euro 0.41 or  R6.60 of the NAV at an exchange rate of R15.40 to the Euro.  Exactly my point above...I would say overseas business have a negative net asset value after those losses to be revealed , impairments and current trading losses.

 

3. From a revenue perspective, y ou do realise that the entire Africa operations contributed to 31% of revenue to Steinhoff (and since they only own around 71%, the revenue contribution was closer to less than a quarter? Confirms what i say that SA is the only profitable operation

 

4. The entire group of companies that was accounted for by equity contributed Euro 47m.  KAP made up less than 30% of this - approx Euros 16m.  To place this into context, this represents 4.7% of the sustainable EBIDTA of Euro 340m   . That figure is based on your foward looking statements right by your kind self...I beg to differ.

 

4.  The impact of KAP on the NAV is Euro 0.06  This higher than I would have liked but fully justifiable IF this leads to a LSW settlement.. They selling it could be for any other reason as well.. We dont know

 

It is you who is misinforming people.  You are spreading lies as truth and then accusing us of your crimes.  Thats your opinion..Its free to post that here..If my opinion is lies etc , you free to dump it.. Im offereing my opinion for free so doesnt cost anyone to read it. If they dont like or agree with it , they too get dump it..simple

 

People, please think twice about anything this charlatan says.  If you are in doubt about anything he says, any figures or statement about Steinhoff, please ask.  I will do my best to provide a factual answer using evidence. This guy is a liar, a dangerous liar who is driving an agenda. Again your opinion. beg to differ . My valuation is backward looking looking at big picture. Your is based on a model foward looking...so complete extremes..

I mean it takes a lot to post negative opinions here where u insulted , called lair , arrogant , character attacks , charlatan , misinformed , blah blah blah but i will still post irrespective of what im being called..  and you want to know my agenda?? To prevent the Pumpers from misleading the newbies... The statement " This guy is a liar, a dangerous liar who is driving an agenda" is a very dangerous statement to make . Its actually shows  the Gurus own agenda here.. But hay ive been called worse so no effect on me. I will continue to post to prevent any pumps on this share like the sale of Kap and the pumpers all happy and jumping when in fact imo its a forced sale to get in some cash flow.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

Cappy America, id still like to know whats your deal? what do you do? and i am not being nasty about it....just curious

 

also cool if you chose to remain anonymous..

 

 

 

 Hi ALL

 

answered the guru the easy way..no attacks , no insults...check youll next month..

Actually feel sorry for those invested and wish this share would jump to my call price i made of R4.00 before i reckon game over..At least gives some an opportunity of getting out... Holding thumbs for you guys especially lional and larry!!!

 

 

[Lionelza1]

https://www.reuters....t-idUSKCN1GP0HV

Article last yr

[Investment novice]

Kap shares oversubscribed sold at 9.6% discount.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Lionelza1]

I agree Lionelza1.  I remember telling this to mates of mine.  At that time I did not own any Steinhoff (I only started buying in late April 2018), but I had the sense after the Poundland business where again MJ overpaid, that this had the potential to be very good or very bad business.

 

Even a good business is a bad investment if you overpay for it.   MF was NEVER a good business.  Made worse by the fact that MJ and Steinhoff enormously overpaid for MF (15% premium).  He believed that it had a strategic importance in that it had existing channels and logistics as a gateway into the US.

 

Saying that, you cannot compare KAP and MF.  You are mixing apples and oranges.  These are two different businesses, operating in different environments.  Based on KAP's Tuesday's market cap of R20.2b (share price R7.56), the entire KAP business would be 40% of MF at the price Steinhoff paid).  And don't forget Steinhoff only owns 25.9% of KAP.  In other words you are comparing a R4b South African business with all the problems that come with this, to a $4b US business that Steinhoff believed gave them a strategic edge into the US.

 

But, I get your point.  NEVER a good idea to sell the family silver.. (good)

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

i'll clariy, i am not comparing KAP to MF, yes it was a premiuim price to pay for MF. am saying if they negotiate/sell KAP shares at  similar percentage price they overpaid for MF, excellent!

 

and the strategy behind MF and getting into US market, great!, the fact that they opted to "fix" MF and not sell, also good as they remain in US market.

 

so they fetch a decent premium for these shares.....will be ok, 

[Captainfrom82]

and yes u are correct it is not core to their business, it does not spell doomsday either...nothing to be happy here....and IF they sell it at a price they bought MF shares for.....i'll SING them praises

 

I agree Lionelza1.  I remember telling this to mates of mine.  At that time I did not own any Steinhoff (I only started buying in late April 2018), but I had the sense after the Poundland business where again MJ overpaid, that this had the potential to be very good or very bad business.

 

Even a good business is a bad investment if you overpay for it.   MF was NEVER a good business.  Made worse by the fact that MJ and Steinhoff enormously overpaid for MF (115% premium).  He believed that it had a strategic importance in that it had existing channels and logistics as a gateway into the US.

 

Saying that, you cannot compare KAP and MF.  You are mixing apples and oranges.  These are two different businesses, operating in different environments.  Based on KAP's Tuesday's market cap of R20.2b (share price R7.56), the entire KAP business would be 40% of MF at the price Steinhoff paid).  And don't forget Steinhoff only owns 25.9% of KAP.  In other words you are comparing a R4b South African business with all the problems that come with this, to a $4b US business that Steinhoff believed gave them a strategic edge into the US.

 

But, I get your point.  NEVER a good idea to sell the family silver.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

Edited by Captainfrom82, 27 March 2019 - 07:29 AM.

[Lionelza1]

Lots of people sprouting the usual rubbish without quantifying anything.  See my response to Polly.  BTW, when you speak to him, can you ask him for evidence of something that he says?  

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

nah it is not rubbish, i did read your response to Polly, i took it in.

 

I do not do pvt msgs with any1 but i am sure he will respond

[Lionelza1]

Polly, this starting to get tiresome!

 

Yes, it is never a good idea to sell your productive assets.  In this case, you have to question if they are getting something far better from the proceeds.  We do not know this yet.  Maybe it is the LSW settlement, maybe not.  If the former I would argue that it is VERY good business.  If the latter, I would agree with you.

 

Few points to place the matter into context: Source for all figures below is the 1H18 unaudited financial statements released on 28 June 2018

 

1. Polly, You mention PSG.  How much of PSG is till owned by Steinhoff Polly?  You do realise that Steinhoff does not own any shares in PSG anymore, right?

 

2. You say that the overseas assets are worth R1.00.  What is your source for this value?  

 

Do you realise that South African Assets make up approximately 34% of Bob Current Assets and 40% of Current Assets, right?  However, you would need to factor in that Star/Pepkor was consolidated whereas Steinhoff only own around 71%.  A truer representation of African operations would be closer to 30% of assets (and I am being generous to SA operations here).  In effect, overseas operations would make up over Euro 0.41 or  R6.60 of the NAV at an exchange rate of R15.40 to the Euro.

 

3. From a revenue perspective, y ou do realise that the entire Africa operations contributed to 31% of revenue to Steinhoff (and since they only own around 71%, the revenue contribution was closer to less than a quarter?

 

4. The entire group of companies that was accounted for by equity contributed Euro 47m.  KAP made up less than 30% of this - approx Euros 16m.  To place this into context, this represents 4.7% of the sustainable EBIDTA of Euro 340m

 

4.  The impact of KAP on the NAV is Euro 0.06  This higher than I would have liked but fully justifiable IF this leads to a LSW settlement.

 

It is you who is misinforming people.  You are spreading lies as truth and then accusing us of your crimes.

 

People, please think twice about anything this charlatan says.  If you are in doubt about anything he says, any figures or statement about Steinhoff, please ask.  I will do my best to provide a factual answer using evidence. This guy is a liar, a dangerous liar who is driving an agenda.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

Cappy America, id still like to know whats your deal? what do you do? and i am not being nasty about it....just curious

 

also cool if you chose to remain anonymous

[Captainfrom82]

Yup...using good money to chase bad money which is never a good sign....catch 22 for snh, Doomed if they do, doomed if they don't...im surprised the up was somewhat maintained on tradegate last night.

Like u said, let's check markets reaction today

Sent from my BLA-L29 using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

 

Lots of people sprouting the usual rubbish without quantifying anything.  See my response to Polly.  BTW, when you speak to him, can you ask him for evidence of something that he says?  

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[Lionelza1]

KAP Is not core to SNH business in any form of their value proposition. Makes sense to sell it.

and yes u are correct it is not core to their business, it does not spell doomsday either...nothing to be happy here....and IF they sell it at a price they bought MF shares for.....i'll SING them praises

[Captainfrom82]

There you go.. The triple joker Gurus at it again...

Another nail in coffin here and the negative painted as positive with completely misleading info.....Unbelievable..

Local assets got value PSG , Kap and Pepkor...Overseas assets worth R1.00

 

Remember this i posted yesterday

 

Thats when the term " precarious position" kicks in..

 

and it did.........

 

There you go...Pyramids have to sell the good assets to pay for expenses and losses from bad assets...

 

The Gurus smiling and jumping last night hay....

and no one even knows what the book build price will fetch...

Just the mention of word sell , and all gets excited.

 

Even if SNH goes into liquidation tomorrow , the Gurus will see it as a positive....

Thats how pump works..and credit will be given to excellent management...

 

Lets watch MR M reaction today....................................!!!

 

I said beginning of the end...and it starts!!!!!!!!

 

Polly, this starting to get tiresome!

 

Yes, it is never a good idea to sell your productive assets.  In this case, you have to question if they are getting something far better from the proceeds.  We do not know this yet.  Maybe it is the LSW settlement, maybe not.  If the former I would argue that it is VERY good business.  If the latter, I would agree with you.

 

Few points to place the matter into context: Source for all figures below is the 1H18 unaudited financial statements released on 28 June 2018

 

1. Polly, You mention PSG.  How much of PSG is till owned by Steinhoff Polly?  You do realise that Steinhoff does not own any shares in PSG anymore, right?

 

2. You say that the overseas assets are worth R1.00.  What is your source for this value?  

 

Do you realise that South African Assets make up approximately 34% of Bob Current Assets and 40% of Current Assets, right?  However, you would need to factor in that Star/Pepkor was consolidated whereas Steinhoff only own around 71%.  A truer representation of African operations would be closer to 30% of assets (and I am being generous to SA operations here).  In effect, overseas operations would make up over Euro 0.41 or  R6.60 of the NAV at an exchange rate of R15.40 to the Euro.

 

3. From a revenue perspective, y ou do realise that the entire Africa operations contributed to 31% of revenue to Steinhoff (and since they only own around 71%, the revenue contribution was closer to less than a quarter?

 

4. The entire group of companies that was accounted for by equity contributed Euro 47m.  KAP made up less than 30% of this - approx Euros 16m.  To place this into context, this represents 4.7% of the sustainable EBIDTA of Euro 340m

 

4.  The impact of KAP on the NAV is Euro 0.06  This higher than I would have liked but fully justifiable IF this leads to a LSW settlement.

 

It is you who is misinforming people.  You are spreading lies as truth and then accusing us of your crimes.

 

People, please think twice about anything this charlatan says.  If you are in doubt about anything he says, any figures or statement about Steinhoff, please ask.  I will do my best to provide a factual answer using evidence. This guy is a liar, a dangerous liar who is driving an agenda.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[Lionelza1]

and the most important thing for me midas, snh is making money....take that away....they fall like a rock! important for me is how they handle litigation!

Edited by Lionelza1, 27 March 2019 - 06:51 AM.

[Lionelza1]

KAP Is not core to SNH business in any form of their value proposition. Makes sense to sell it.

 

NEVER!!!!! they got NO CHOICE....back against the friggen wall!!!

 

U see, if you ppl are more realistic when things happen i would read more into what ypu guys say, but FFS dont be dof man

[JK001]

KAP Is not core to SNH business in any form of their value proposition. Makes sense to sell it.