15225 replies to this topic

[DeltaHedge]

TdK interview from 03:00 to 10:50 @ https://omny.fm/show...fortunes-around

He's got a point, why does steinhoff even need to exist

[Africa1962]

TdK interview from 03:00 to 10:50 @ https://omny.fm/show...fortunes-around

 

Mmm very enlightening..."does SNH still need to exist" question and answer.

It would seem that unbundling is definitely on the cards..

That would be such a shame after all that has transpired over the years....the South African built mega company that fades into nothing...

Too much emotion invested in this company.....would be like losing your child who has had to fight off all sorts of adversity to emerge victorious and then be hit by a bus and killed the next day.....

I hope they can find a strategy that will enable Steinhoff to emerge as a viable holding company ....and let the South African success story continue...only then will this be a story of victory

[Squideye]

INTERVIEW | Steinhoff looks to offload shares in bid to cut R170 billion debt burden https://www.news24.c...burden-20220129

 

TdK interview from 03:00 to 10:50 @ https://omny.fm/show...fortunes-around

Edited by Squideye, 29 January 2022 - 08:34 AM.

[Tiekkie]

Indeed I agree the business units namely Pepkor and Pepco are generating great cash flows however like you said SNH cannot touch those cash flows and has you said can only have dividends or sell shares.

So lets look at the cash flow:

1 - Pepkor paid about Eur 45 mil
2 - Pepco nothing however they did say on the AGM yesterday looking at giving 2 times cover which if they did give dividends with that policy SNH share at present would be Eur 105 mil. (165/2) x 78.9%)
3 - MF the outstanding 45% will give zero due to the huge debt they created recently.
4 - Greenlit Brands total profit (excluding other costs) is only 28 mil

Therefore total cash receivable: 45+105+28 = Eur 178 mil

So Eur 178 is far short of the Eur 970 mil interest paid per year until 2023. That's why I said they cash flow negative.

The Fed as hinted 7 rate hikes so very sure SNH will not lend money for less than 6% per year and Eur 178 mil (lets assume corporate costs be Zero) the maximum they can lend is Eur 2,6 bil which leaves Eur 6,4 bil to be paid from the shareholding in the units.

My question how much will there be left?

INTERVIEW | Steinhoff looks to offload shares in bid to cut R170 billion debt burden https://www.news24.c...burden-20220129

[DayTraderDad]

They can and do generate cash in the business units, and grow the top line.

 

Cash in the underlying business units should either be used for expansion of the business or dividends. SNH is majority shareholder and has significant influence on how it should be spent.

 

If companies cannot expand using the cash and/or sit on it, shareholders will start to demand dividends. So, that cash(or value) will find their way back to the mothership, you cannot ignore it in the calcs and leave EUR 2 Bil as lost.

 

So, either;

- get the cash in dividend

- get the value in share price growth via expansion

Indeed I agree the business units namely Pepkor and Pepco are generating great cash flows however like you said SNH cannot touch those cash flows and has you said can only have dividends or sell shares.

 

So lets look at the cash flow:

 

1 - Pepkor paid about Eur 45 mil

2 - Pepco nothing however they did say on the AGM yesterday looking at giving 2 times cover which if they did give dividends with that policy SNH share at present would be Eur 105 mil. (165/2) x 78.9%)

3 - MF the outstanding 45% will give zero due to the huge debt they created recently.

4 - Greenlit Brands total profit (excluding other costs)  is only 28 mil

 

Therefore total cash receivable: 45+105+28 = Eur 178 mil

 

So Eur 178 is far short of the Eur 970 mil interest paid per year until 2023. That's why I said they cash flow negative.

 

The Fed as hinted 7 rate hikes so very sure SNH will not lend money for less than 6% per year and Eur 178 mil (lets assume corporate costs be Zero) the maximum they can lend is Eur 2,6 bil which leaves Eur 6,4 bil to be paid from the shareholding in the units.

 

My question how much will there be left?

[Bubble]

Also note total cash is Eur 3151 - (PEPCO= Eur 587 mil + Pepkor= Eur 354 mil + Eur 1181 for SED) = Net corporate cash: Eur 1029 mil. Therefore just roughly Net Corporate debt is Eur 9835 - Eur 1029 = Eur 8806 with a negative cash flow!! 

 

They can and do generate cash in the business units, and grow the top line.

 

Cash in the underlying business units should either be used for expansion of the business or dividends. SNH is majority shareholder and has significant influence on how it should be spent.

 

If companies cannot expand using the cash and/or sit on it, shareholders will start to demand dividends. So, that cash(or value) will find their way back to the mothership, you cannot ignore it in the calcs and leave EUR 2 Bil as lost.

 

So, either;

- get the cash in dividend

- get the value in share price growth via expansion

[Squideye]

Steinhoff boosts revenues by 14% as customers look to discount stores in tough economy @ https://www.news24.c...conomy-20220128

[Polla]

A question for you, was the tax losses on the individual business units or SNH corporate?

It was in different entities... some of them even dormant... but most probably still usable in the future..

[DayTraderDad]

Note 16 basically says that after the GS the cash on hand would be €307mill more than 2020...

 

Restated Revenue on continuing businesses grow by 14.4%....

 

Accumulated tax losses doubled from €9113mill to €18107mill because of certainty how to handle the historic accumulated losses....

A question for you, was the tax losses on the individual business units or SNH corporate?

[DayTraderDad]

Note 16 basically says that after the GS the cash on hand would be €307mill more than 2020...

 

Restated Revenue on continuing businesses grow by 14.4%....

 

Accumulated tax losses doubled from €9113mill to €18107mill because of certainty how to handle the historic accumulated losses....

Thanks for the explanation. I just don't understand why they changed the reporting format for the cash because on the fins of 31/03/2021 it was well explained in Note 2.5 (page 42) which in that day the cash was Eur 1 079 mil  with a debt of Eur 10 396 mil with a net debt Eur 9 317.

[Polla]

Page 152 Total borrowings - Corporate = Eur 9835 mil after paying down  Eur 1011 mil ( obviously the cash from the PEPCO IPO) Interest per year Eur 978 so by 31/09/2022 will be a debt of : Eur 10813 mil. I cannot find the amount of cash held by corporate because Note 16 is vague!!! All it says is Eur 180 mil to be used for settlement so how much corporate cash will remain???

Note 16 basically says that after the GS the cash on hand would be €307mill more than 2020...

 

Restated Revenue on continuing businesses grow by 14.4%....

 

Accumulated tax losses doubled from €9113mill to €18107mill because of certainty how to handle the historic accumulated losses....

[DeltaHedge]

Also note total cash is Eur 3151 - (PEPCO= Eur 587 mil + Pepkor= Eur 354 mil + Eur 1181 for SED) = Net corporate cash: Eur 1029 mil. Therefore just roughly Net Corporate debt is Eur 9835 - Eur 1029 = Eur 8806 with a negative cash flow!! 

they need to close up shop

[DayTraderDad]

Sources within a political party, who cannot be named due to their knowledge of the matter, report that Julius M. and Floyd S. consulted a sangoma to explain the balance sheet documents in a more simplified way...

Haha they will get an accurate answer!!!

[DayTraderDad]

Yes go read page 152 and then we talk again!!!

Also note total cash is Eur 3151 - (PEPCO= Eur 587 mil + Pepkor= Eur 354 mil + Eur 1181 for SED) = Net corporate cash: Eur 1029 mil. Therefore just roughly Net Corporate debt is Eur 9835 - Eur 1029 = Eur 8806 with a negative cash flow!! 

[DayTraderDad]

Seems DTD will have to redo his scaremongering debt calculations haha. And if I read this correctly, this total debt is w/o the Mattress Group dividend of almost half a billion?

 

Getting positive vibes from briefly skimming this.

Yes go read page 152 and then we talk again!!!

[Squideye]

Sources within a political party, who cannot be named due to their knowledge of the matter, report that Julius M. and Floyd S. consulted a sangoma to explain the balance sheet documents in a more simplified way...

Edited by Squideye, 28 January 2022 - 12:57 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

€8.1 billion debt...  +GS

Page 152 Total borrowings - Corporate = Eur 9835 mil after paying down  Eur 1011 mil ( obviously the cash from the PEPCO IPO) Interest per year Eur 978 so by 31/09/2022 will be a debt of : Eur 10813 mil. I cannot find the amount of cash held by corporate because Note 16 is vague!!! All it says is Eur 180 mil to be used for settlement so how much corporate cash will remain???

[Squideye]

U gona change your name to Quideye soon

At the present moment quite a low volume in ZA and Germany. Takes time to study all pages and understand the contents.

Not everybody can be a Chuck Norris and read 276 pages within 3 seconds...

[Polla]

€8.1 billion debt...  +GS

It's a lot less than expected... Overall I think the financials looks quite good.... Now let's see what the market thinks of it

[Tentative]

Seems DTD will have to redo his scaremongering debt calculations haha. And if I read this correctly, this total debt is w/o the Mattress Group dividend of almost half a billion?

 

Getting positive vibes from briefly skimming this.

 

 

NET DEBT AND CASH FLOW: The net debt for the Group at the Reporting Date was €8 117 million (2020: €9 438 million), calculated as total debt less cash and cash equivalents. The Group Services cash includes the amounts held to cover the Litigation Settlement Provision

 

 

Subsequent to the Reporting Date the debt has been paid down further as a result of a payment received from Mattress Firm and a dividend from Greenlit Brands, as detailed below.