15225 replies to this topic

[Sleepwa123]

Honestly think you are in for a hard lesson...

I think there's a lot of profit taking going on. It's had a good run and the uncertainty around the court decision will result in some people taking what they can right now.

[DayTraderDad]

Honestly think you are in for a hard lesson...

Would you like to share more details!

[skeez]

Honestly think you are in for a hard lesson...

[sommerso]

just did a bounce....trading shenanigans

 

 

Candlesticks shows clear shenanigans and manipulations. But it bodes well that there is enough to want to do this. Otherwise they would have just left it to the free market to determine "negative fair value". 

[Africa1962]

What the F????? 

 

Any news I am missing?

just did a bounce....trading shenanigans

[JR7800]

What the F????? 

 

Any news I am missing?

[sommerso]

Not a reply to anything. Just a conservative managing expectation bull. For myself. 

 

What a wild ride Steinhoff has been. I've been holding since 2017 at an avg price of R2.01. I've seen the pump and dumps and watched it fall to 78c ( Never had the funds to accumulate at those levels ). Would have if I could. Watched it climb and keep steady at R1 for many months without much movement. Like all of you here. At this moment I'm happy to be in the greens. 

 

The initial plan was to hold out for R5, as I can settle my debt and have money left over for some renovations at home, but the plan was changed to hold for R20.

 

But my 'itchy balls' are telling me that R5 is possible by the end of this 2021 year and when dividends start paying out, we might even get to R10 by end of R2022. Curbing my enthusiasm that this stock will go to the moon like Gamestop, that was a perfect storm coming together. But in about 5 years, with trust restored in the business model and management, R20 is entirely possible. 

 

 

But then again, traders are seeking short term wins and immediate returns. We are in the era of instant gratification and instant riches. Who knows. I'll happily be wrong with my guestimation by 5 years   .. well, 5 years this side 5. 

 

 

To the moon and all the well wishes. R5 by March  

 

 

 

[Leadingedge]

Yip agree, however, buying into "calm befor the launch" !

Must say though, volumes have been high so there is a lot of consolidating and profit taking taking place!

 

Certainly looked like a lot of profit taking going on...cant blame anyone either I guess. Timing on the relaunch is the tricky part, could be hours, days or weeks until we get an update on the hearing (granted that it's a positive outcome).

[Everlearning]

Yip agree, however, buying into "calm befor the launch" !

Must say though, volumes have been high so there is a lot of consolidating and profit taking taking place!

[Leadingedge]

calm before the storm ? or calm before the launch to the moon?

 

I was actually surprised by the initial gains today, given that nothing changed over the weekend (even the Reddit boys fizzled out). Currently we are still in an overbought state on the charts, so until there is positive news on the hearing, I think it is only fair to expect a slight retrace.

 

Merely an observation.

[DeltaHedge]

Lanh & Schwarz Trading on Sunday @ 0,135 €

 

https://www.ls-tc.de...f-int-hld-aktie

 

calm before the storm ? or calm before the launch to the moon?

[Squideye]

Lanh & Schwarz Trading on Sunday @ 0,135 €

 

https://www.ls-tc.de...f-int-hld-aktie

 

[DeltaHedge]

 

Could a Reddit war come to the JSE? ...Locally, Steinhoff seems to be a contender. Already this week, the share saw massive buying, and a 60% jump in its share price...

 

https://www.business...-the-jse-2021-1

 

Ya, looking at Reddit I see Steinhoff has been discovered - although has not gone viral yet

 

Any good news from recent/future events will send the price to 6 bucks +

[Squideye]

Could a Reddit war come to the JSE? ...Locally, Steinhoff seems to be a contender. Already this week, the share saw massive buying, and a 60% jump in its share price...

 

https://www.business...-the-jse-2021-1

[DeltaHedge]

Yes before the collapse of Steinhoff I was also like Vesrter saying it was over valued. My problem then was that could not understand the financials. How ever today SNH it much different transparent good clean financials. As for the 9.7 bil debt my friend Verster is forgetting a few things.
1 - Last figures SNH had close to 2 billion on cash so that alone reduces the debt to 7.7 bil.
2 - Listing of Aussie business should bring 0.4 bil debt now 7.3
3 - Mattress Firm now profitable my estimate in time SNH can sell the 50% for 1.3 bil then debt at 6 bil
4 - List PEPCO a fast growing business my take they will sell 40% and get 3 bil then debt is 3 bil.
5 - Settlement of the claim at 0.8 bil great then after that SNH sues the directors involved and get their money back. Debt reduced to 2.2

Surely with all that SNH can move forward and in my opinion is not the redants that pushing the price up its the people that can see past the noise.

A debt of 2.2 bil carries a interest of 0.09 bil per year surely not the end of the world when you own companies that are growing at a fast rate like PEPCO.

Anyway time for green beer

Thanks for the analysis. I agree.
Also surely interest rate on debt can also be renegotiated at a better rate because are paying a premium on the interest due to their ongoing litigation claims etc.

So in effect reduced debt and interest rate on the debt to come

Edited by DeltaHedge, 29 January 2021 - 07:49 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

Have just had this reply back from Steinhoff Investor Relations,

 

"Thank you for your email. Judgement in that hearing has been reserved, and as such there is no new information to update the market on.

As usual, Steinhoff will update the market as and when there is new information."

 

This is pretty normal for the courts as the 'judgement' normally needs to be given in writing for the record. Guess it could take another couple of days before we get the confirmation.

 

I'm extremely bullish on the outcome, management have conducted this so strategically making sure they 'crossing the T's and dotting the I's, we just need to be patient.... we know what the underlying assets are and they going nowhere !!!

Thanks Everlearning the power of sharing information that´s what makes this forum with it!!!

[DayTraderDad]

 

https://www.business...gamestop-2021-1

 

The SA media is really not rooting for a Steinhoff turn-around huh? But he is right on that we need good news on the settlement. Volume disappeared again.

But Verster says only a hundred or so traders seem to be taking part in these Steinhoff discussions, and that momentum has started to fizzle out. Also, he believes the Steinhoff buying will end in tears.

Steinhoff has a debt burden of €9.7 billion (almost R180 billion) and is facing large legal claims for misleading its shareholders.
“The Pepco IPO won’t solve its debt issue, as well as the large settlements it still has to make,” Verster says.

While its share price is now trading above R2, Verster reckons it has a negative fair value – meaning that after all its debts and other liabilities are deducted, the company is worth less than nothing.

Yes before the collapse of Steinhoff I was also like Vesrter saying it was over valued. My problem then was that could not understand the financials. How ever today SNH it much different transparent good clean financials. As for the 9.7 bil debt my friend Verster is forgetting a few things.

1 - Last figures SNH had close to 2 billion on cash so that alone reduces the debt to 7.7 bil.

2 - Listing of Aussie business should bring 0.4 bil debt now 7.3

3 - Mattress Firm now profitable my estimate in time SNH can sell the 50% for 1.3 bil then debt at 6 bil

4 - List PEPCO a fast growing business my take they will sell 40% and get 3 bil then debt is 3 bil.

5 - Settlement of the claim at 0.8 bil great then after that SNH sues the directors involved and get their money back. Debt reduced to 2.2

 

Surely with all that SNH can move forward and in my opinion is not the redants that pushing the price up its the people that can see past the noise.

 

A debt of 2.2 bil carries a interest of 0.09 bil per year surely not the end of the world when you own companies that are growing at a fast rate like PEPCO.

 

Anyway time for green beer

[DayTraderDad]

Have just had this reply back from Steinhoff Investor Relations,

 

"Thank you for your email. Judgement in that hearing has been reserved, and as such there is no new information to update the market on.

As usual, Steinhoff will update the market as and when there is new information."

 

This is pretty normal for the courts as the 'judgement' normally needs to be given in writing for the record. Guess it could take another couple of days before we get the confirmation.

 

I'm extremely bullish on the outcome, management have conducted this so strategically making sure they 'crossing the T's and dotting the I's, we just need to be patient.... we know what the underlying assets are and they going nowhere !!!

I think the judgement reserved is linked/pending the hearing on the 8th in Amsterdam.

[Tentative]

https://www.business...gamestop-2021-1

 

The SA media is really not rooting for a Steinhoff turn-around huh? But he is right on that we need good news on the settlement. Volume disappeared again.

But Verster says only a hundred or so traders seem to be taking part in these Steinhoff discussions, and that momentum has started to fizzle out. Also, he believes the Steinhoff buying will end in tears.

Steinhoff has a debt burden of €9.7 billion (almost R180 billion) and is facing large legal claims for misleading its shareholders.
“The Pepco IPO won’t solve its debt issue, as well as the large settlements it still has to make,” Verster says.

While its share price is now trading above R2, Verster reckons it has a negative fair value – meaning that after all its debts and other liabilities are deducted, the company is worth less than nothing.

[Africa1962]

Thanks for the effort in getting the answer. Good to know

 

Definition

What does Judgement has been reserved mean?

Reserved judgments are those that are usually complex and require time for the judge to deliberate. ...

Could be days/weeks before we hear?