15225 replies to this topic

[Investment novice]

What are the positives and negatives to this strategy- how would new shareholders in the IPO entity be protected from liability?

Has this been the strategy worked on with the lenders in the lockup?

will the property portfolio also be listed?

would there be any benefit from listing MF- unlikely as undervalued? management buyout more likely? would Pepkor SA or Pepkor Europe- be an interested entity due to the regional opportunity to cross sell products

 

I still am blind on the outcomes

[DayTraderDad]

Yes for me its very positive. Next step is the listing and Greenlit will take the tranche B as its own debt and tranche A will be settled by SNH with the proceeds. There was talk in March a IPO would be with about $850 mil.

https://www.channeln...-parent-slumps/

[DayTraderDad]

Dad..you agree positive?

Yes for me its very positive. Next step is the listing and Greenlit will take the tranche B as its own debt and tranche A will be settled by SNH with the proceeds. There was talk in March a IPO would be with about $850 mil.

[Ms Jet]

Dad..you agree positive?

[Ms Jet]

https://www.business...efinances-debt/

[DayTraderDad]

 

If they are able to find finance for Greenlit, then this is an indication that it would also be very possible for them to be able to find finance or loan for Mattress Firm.

 

My take this is in preparation to the IPO. Once Greenlit is listed they will take one of the tranches my toughs will be tranche B and SNH will use the proceeds to settle tranche A. Mattress Firm will be going the same way soon.

[DayTraderDad]

A very emotive issue. But a complex case to prove.

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I still find this difficult to get my head around because a shareholder dumps a share because he reads a shorter's report and SNH advising of delayed publishing of account a new shareholder now has to pay for that loss!!! So if a person wants to dump a share he should pay for its decision not the person that bought the share! And now VEB has the company interest at heart, Hahaha

[Tom]

If they are able to find finance for Greenlit, then this is an indication that it would also be very possible for them to be able to find finance or loan for Mattress Firm.

Edited by Tom, 27 September 2018 - 09:03 AM.

[Tom]

Is it a safe accounting practice to amend a loan to be dividend? and why to be done this way? and if it becomes dividend then why use the term "repayable" ?

[Tom]

REFINANCING OF Greenlit Brands Pty Ltd (formerly known as Steinhoff Asia Pacific Group
Holdings Pty. Limited)
Steinhoff International Holdings N.V. (the “Company” and with its subsidiaries, the “Group”)

The Company announces that Greenlit Brands Pty Ltd (formerly known as Steinhoff Asia Pacific
Group Holdings Pty. Limited (“Greenlit”)) has refinanced certain of its financial indebtedness.

The refinancing represents a positive step for Greenlit, as it secures a multi-year facility with a
syndicate of three Australian-based banks, on current market terms. Greenlit remains
independent from the Group in terms of its working capital requirements.

As part of the restructuring, the Company and Steinhoff Europe AG (“SEAG”) are also released
as guarantors in respect of Greenlit’s financial indebtedness.

The refinancing represents another milestone in the overall restructuring of the indebtedness
of the Group.

The key terms of the refinancing are:

A new senior revolving credit facility and bilateral facilities of A$256m for Greenlit to refinance
the existing senior financing of Greenlit and its subsidiaries. The refinancing extends the maturity
date of the company’s financing to 6 October 2020. The economic terms of the refinancing
are broadly in line with existing senior facilities.

Existing intragroup loans from SEAG, Steinhoff UK Holdings Limited (“SUKHL”) and Retail Holdings
SARL (“RHS”) to Steinhoff Asia Pacific Holdings Pty Limited (“SAPH”) and Greenlit will remain in
place and will be amended and restated to be divided into two: Tranche A (A$96,921,708)
repayable in March 2021 and Tranche B (A$227,578,292) repayable in June 2021. Cash pay
interest will be permitted on certain tranches of the intergroup loans, permitting cash payments
of c. A$4.4m per annum.

The new senior financing will share the same security package as the intragroup Tranche A
loans which will rank as second lien. The security package for the intragroup Tranche B loans
will replicate the security package for the new senior financing and the intragroup Tranche A
loans but will be third ranking.
A catch up payment of deferred cash pay interest will be made to the lenders under the
intragroup loans referred to above.

Certain amendments will be made to the existing trade mark licenses used solely within the
APAC business between the Group and Greenlit and its subsidiaries to provide enhanced rights
to Greenlit and its subsidiaries.

Shareholders and other investors in the Company are advised to exercise caution when
dealing in the securities of the Group.

Edited by Tom, 27 September 2018 - 08:50 AM.

[Ms Jet]

It's amazing how ppl cry when they loose their money... But when they collecting its all hunky dory... YOU CHOOSE to GAMBLE ur money on the market and when it turns south stfu and move on. For sure the argument of not buying what ur sold is a valid one, is it as simple as that tho? I doubt it. Ultimately ur relying on some1 elses decisions, like Babbas friend.

I'm giving Ms Jackie Chan benefit of doubt. I'm also hoping market hasn't priced in oct20 but I'm thinking some1 will say the market has and that's gonna *** up my play

Good Luck,,,Im going to try sell at small profit and buy in cheaper..Then holding those shares...I think SNH will still be operating after PWC.Been off sick but back at my desk catching up since early so wont have much input from me unless I see something interesting in coffee breaks...

[Lionelza1]

It's amazing how ppl cry when they loose their money... But when they collecting its all hunky dory... YOU CHOOSE to GAMBLE ur money on the market and when it turns south stfu and move on. For sure the argument of not buying what ur sold is a valid one, is it as simple as that tho? I doubt it. Ultimately ur relying on some1 elses decisions, like Babbas friend.

I'm giving Ms Jackie Chan benefit of doubt. I'm also hoping market hasn't priced in oct20 but I'm thinking some1 will say the market has and that's gonna *** up my play

[Ms Jet]

Ps thats moneyweb.co.za opinion not mine..im a ramaphosa fan...i think he will 'save the day'...temporarily..the guys putting in some serious effort

[Ms Jet]

Read comments on moneyweb.co.za most people dont thin snh hoinh down an eg...o anyone applauding this “victory”, you are similar to the one’s saying Ramaphosa will save the day. Attractive headlines and emotion, doesn’t get you anywhere.

Seifert and Deloitte skeletons will also emerge from this.

VEB’s last real victory took 15 years to conclude. Good luck getting your 1c on the dollar!

Steinhoff will ultimately survive this. Banks rule the world and need to see Steinhoff survive this. Which is what will happen..

[Ms Jet]

I am actually..just like have balanced overview of things and open to all opinions without getting ANGRY if not same as mine....main thing people saying deloiite banks jooste accountable but as you can see if VEB gets settlements will be about 15 years and marginal.have great positive day all 🌻

[Rex]

Jet, seems like you're not so optimistic anymore

[Ms Jet]

One of moneyweb.co.za comments:

VOTE 5 LOG IN TO REPLY REPORT
John33 1 hour ago
It was negligent, reckless, and unprofessional of Deloitte to wait until December to say that they won’t sign off the accounting statements. Where were they during the whole year of 2017.
There were allegations by Seifert and consequently investigations from the German authorities since 2014 and another one by professional auditors since 2015, in which Deloitte participated in and singed off the statements of 2016, 2015, 2014 and before.
Now surely and especially because of these allegations from Seifert and then investigations and being the official auditing firm of Steinhoff they should have kept a close eye on the accounting statements on a day by day basis during 2017, and raise any concern immediately the same day during 2017, so that by the end of the year they can in time sign off the statements (which is their job), so as not to compromise the interest of all stake holders.
By waiting until the last month, and not raising the concerns in time when any concern arises, indicates that Deloitte

[Investment novice]

A very emotive issue. But a complex case to prove.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Ms Jet]

Took veb 15 years to win money for another company see below....yikes Registered users can save articles to their personal articles list. Login here or sign up here
Companies and Deals Shareholders win right to sue Steinhoff in Netherlands The court rejected Steinhoff’s argument saying it ‘ignores the rule that the jurisdiction of a court is in principle governed by the residence of the defendant.’
Ellen Proper, Bloomberg / 26 September 2018 16:26 One comment so far
STEINHOFF N.V. R2.49-0.0326/09/2018, 17:00:29
A shareholder group got a green light to sue Steinhoff International in the Netherlands, kicking off a legal fight to recover some of the billions of dollars investors lost after the South African retailer’s accounting scandal.

In a procedural hearing last month, Netherlands-incorporated Steinhoff had argued against going ahead with the court case filed in Amsterdam by Dutch investor group VEB, saying a legal claim was first filed in Germany. The company moved its primary listing to Frankfurt from Johannesburg in 2015.

The court rejected Steinhoff’s argument Wednesday, saying it “ignores the rule that the jurisdiction of a court is in principle governed by the residence of the defendant.” Steinhoff has to reply to the allegations by November 7.

“A Dutch NV must simply be able to be sued in the Netherlands,” said Geert Koster, a lawyer for VEB, which says it represents some 3% of the retailer’s shareholders. Steinhoff has said only 0.25% of its shareholders are based in the Netherlands, downplaying the need for a Dutch judge to rule on the case.

Steinhoff is studying the Dutch court’s decision, including whether it provides grounds for appeal, according to a statement Wednesday. It added that the Amsterdam court has granted its request to summons former Chief Executive Officer Markus Jooste in proceedings to weigh his personal liability, within three months.

Since the accounting scandal erupted December 5, Steinhoff has written off the value of its assets by at least 12.4 billion euros ($14.3 billion) and said restatements of its financials may have to go back to at least 2015. The stock has plunged 94%. Jooste stepped down, followed by Chief Financial Officer Ben La Grange. Chairman Christo Wiese, who told South African lawmakers in January that the news came as a “bolt from the blue,” also resigned.

Steinhoff shares fell as much as 4.4% to 14.2 euro cents in Frankfurt trading.

German suit
In Germany, law firm TILP filed a claim against Steinhoff on behalf of an investor and is working to expand it into the German version of a class-action suit. Steinhoff has also sought to have German courts declared unauthorised to rule on the case, said Daniella Strik, a lawyer for Steinhoff, during the Dutch court session.

A German ruling would have no legal authority for shareholders who hadn’t opted in to the German collective action, VEB’s Koster said.

Shareholders haven’t had any lost money returned yet. VEB argues that Steinhoff issued inaccurate and misleading information in at least two annual reports and various news releases, and didn’t immediately disclose the information’s inaccuracy.

The Dutch shareholder group, which represents retail and institutional investors, also has a separate claim outstanding against the Dutch office of Deloitte for the damage suffered by the Steinhoff shareholders. VEB said Deloitte failed in its statutory task as auditor when approving the Stellenbosch, South Africa-based company’s annual report in 2016.

VEB has successfully sued Dutch-based companies before. The group got supermarket company Royal Ahold Delhaize NV’s predecessor Ahold to return almost a billion euros to shareholders after an accounting scandal emerged in 2003. This summer, after 15 years of legal fighting, VEB settled with Ahold’s auditor, Deloitte, which brought the retailer’s accounting fraud to light after discovering irregularities.

Steinhoff has appointed PricewaterhouseCoopers to probe its finances, with the final results expected to be published by the end of the year.

© 2018 Bloomberg L.P
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[Ms Jet]

Very excited..read charts this afternoon and snh ended up at price i thought....hmmmmmm...still wouldn't bet my bank account on my readings but its a start 😁