15225 replies to this topic

[Snippit]

Gents and ladies, I also do believe that we coming to the end of the story, credit insurers pulling out. 

 

Novice - I assume you deep in as you only ever have positive things to say. Who knows, wait a few more weeks, then can maybe pick up more stock for a few cents.

 

Thats gotta be good advice. Last time I did this averaging down the cost thing it cost me big time and still never came back 8 years later.

It cost nought to observe the price action for signs of staying alive at least. The reality remains that the downtrend can easily go to zero, permanently.

All this posting to the contrary is for encouraging others to be reckless, like the incessant loser presents as erudite.

Totally fake erudite unless at least a hint of a base. Simply a mindless gamble, nothing more and nothing less.

[Investment novice]

Gents and ladies, I also do believe that we coming to the end of the story, credit insurers pulling out.

Novice - I assume you deep in as you only ever have positive things to say. Who knows, wait a few more weeks, then can maybe pick up more stock for a few cents.

Credit insurer very different to creditor...and this is for a very troubled entity...i am very very deep and will get in deeper as this is my high risk allocation of a balanced portfolio.
Seems like there are buyers for seller and vice versa.....time will tell...the journey is still young....lets chat again in 5 years time

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[leo]

Gents and ladies, I also do believe that we coming to the end of the story, credit insurers pulling out. 

 

Novice - I assume you deep in as you only ever have positive things to say. Who knows, wait a few more weeks, then can maybe pick up more stock for a few cents.

[Procrastinator]

210 million shares final trade.......any ideas...

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Maybe monster short covering?

[Investment novice]

This information makes me think that I can say good bye to my 'fairytale'...

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RAM85 this should not be a fairytale investment- strip out emotion, or  only invest the amount that allows you to sleep at night.its a blood in the streets trade

you may also consider this a 2-4 year investment . Facts thus far- H1 earnings 2018  are 5% ahead of the H1 earnings 2017. This was critical information as we needed to understand the percentage of funds that were cooked annually. the financials including balance sheet in 2017 and 2018 will be painful but bearable as the books will have to be balanced and adjusted to demonstrate the as at picture. bearable as this will be sobering for a market evaluation. The legal battles is the thorn currently- and despite the worst picture painted- SNH does not hold the entire liability and has already initiated due process to defer accountability through the ardous detailed and delayed forensic report as well as motions filed. either buy at these levels, or hold cash for a turnaround. is a turnaround possible- yes of course- multiple debtors who will have to fight for the share of pie which is ugly if debt restructuring is not agreed- purchased debt at a discount and now have to secure their investment. will more assets be sold off- off course but at best value . will there still be room for company growth- of course lots of assets , business lines and footprint with skilled management to cross sell. there are lots of options here. regarding legal battles---settlement could include share allocation of SNH; including share allocation of a new listed prop co, etc, etc........ veb and shareholders are suing to ensure they remain in the game when allocations are made- but even for the suitors its lose lose if snh files for bankruptcy.....

[Ram85]

This information makes me think that I can say good bye to my 'fairytale'...

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[Investment novice]

Biz news article...
"But next to the main event, the Tekkie Town disaster is a side-show. My sources say PWC’s 60 or so forensic auditors who have spent the past six months unravelling the Steinhoff knot have already turned up sensational information. And there’s still another six months to go. Brace yourself South Africa. With jet setting lifestyles, fast women, slow horses, industrial scale skulduggery and a conscience-free sociopath, this saga has “mini series” written all over it"

Wow..hopefully the forensics uncovering wasteful expenditure and not tons and tons of fraud.....

Important type of information we require from gossip columns....
Nature of fraud; quantum of fraud.....and creditors agreeing to restructuring..
...the above article a hash of old news and sensationalism lacking facts....

If material information is leaking from PWC ...it would be prudent for.PWC and steinhoff to release interim updates...


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[Investment novice]

Index changes today ... perhaps some rebalancing happening ?

would this still register as a sale at the price in a given point of time?

 

any ideas?

[icassim]

210 million shares final trade.......any ideas...

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Index changes today ... perhaps some rebalancing happening ?

[Investment novice]

210 million shares final trade.......any ideas...

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[Investment novice]

With fervent determination a buy order for another 50000 shares placed

Why the madness....

Legal battles take 3 to 5 years...settlement is usually a fraction of what is claimed.
Steinhoff have not accepted liability and will fight to defer blame to accused transgressors.....another long fight.....snh may settle an amount....
Best interest for shareholders will be return of some value...
Finally evidenced by trading update....revenue has not been falsified...perhaps a percentage....
Creditors are multiple hence chances are higher to restructure debt....
3 years to grow value and dispose of assets...or resell debt in 3 years time again to a willing buyer may also be on the cards....

This is how i sleep with my madness....

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[Procrastinator]

..... they had to offload 6% of their holdings to pay towards debt, is this control still in place
 
About that 6%. Will the buyers want their money back because they were not told about the R500 million executive incentive scheme and if they did, they received price sensitive insider information.

Indeed Star management not looking good at all with that issue.
Investors need to vote on these issues with their feet, problem is that Star still a cash cow and investors, read asset managers prob not inclined to dump that so easily.
In light of the above I wonder how the next book build will be received in the event that there is another sale.

[Bullhunter]

..... they had to offload 6% of their holdings to pay towards debt, is this control still in place

 

About that 6%. Will the buyers want their money back because they were not told about the R500 million executive incentive scheme and if they did, they received price sensitive insider information.   

[Procrastinator]

business day article...star to rename itself as Pepkor......to distance itself from SNH---how is that different
STAR to consider legal action against snh to recoup r500m- okay-- so the son suing the father
not issuing dividends already impacts snh 70% shareholder-
 
management aggrieved by losing out and they had no say....hmmm....incentive schemes have finite time lock in periods and then opt in and opt out....boo hoo I am sure management were not unhappy when the going was good....
 
so much fiasco- majority opinion- the snh shareholders will be now slitting their wrists as the tear ducts have all but dried...
 

time to buy some more shares....
 
here is an exercise for you all- pull the company director listing of wiese- cross map the new companies created with the new shareholding in snh and you will notice something strange............has Wiese secretly increased shareholding?...hopefully we will have journalists reporting on this the first week of June ....

The question is, does Steinhoff still have voting control over Star, they had 50.1 % voting control before they had to offload 6% of their holdings to pay towards debt, is this control still in place?

Star is now a separate listed legal entity with its own funding that Steinhoff still owns 71% of.

I reckon the funders of SNH debt will want Snh to offload more of the stake in Star to pay down debt further. 9.6bn euro is still a big chunk of change and the Star stake is the way out for the funders.

Jewel in the crown going to be sold off to pay the piper.

[Investment novice]

business day article...star to rename itself as Pepkor......to distance itself from SNH---how is that different

STAR to consider legal action against snh to recoup r500m- okay-- so the son suing the father

not issuing dividends already impacts snh 70% shareholder-

 

management aggrieved by losing out and they had no say....hmmm....incentive schemes have finite time lock in periods and then opt in and opt out....boo hoo I am sure management were not unhappy when the going was good....

 

so much fiasco- majority opinion- the snh shareholders will be now slitting their wrists as the tear ducts have all but dried...

 

time to buy some more shares....

 

here is an exercise for you all- pull the company director listing of wiese- cross map the new companies created with the new shareholding in snh and you will notice something strange............has Wiese secretly increased shareholding?...hopefully we will have journalists reporting on this the first week of June ....

 

 

[Investment novice]

Steinhoff hammered because of star lack of dividends....andgrowth of 330 new stores....

Star recovered loss...snh ...lost a furthe 2 pecent..

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Why would Star protect management???
Perhaps the answer xould also relate to ensuring continuing sustainability and company growth. Will all the distraction delivering 330 stores and 16 percent growth ia great.....

More importantly in my opinion....if snh were to convince lenders for a 3 year wait...critical to demonstrate xontinued growth and resilience....so a smack in thefave fpr shareholders but actually positive for share value.....

Also Tekkie town claim refuted by Star.

..importantly....pepkor is back....company seperation...increased future star value....incrrase value for snh.......

And finally....looka like all the law suits are in fact targetting some share allocation of star....thats what wiese wants....unfortunately may not be what he gets...

Will try buy more shares...at this price.....unlikely to hit 70c....support at 120

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[Investment novice]

Steinhoff hammered because of star lack of dividends....andgrowth of 330 new stores....

Star recovered loss...snh ...lost a furthe 2 pecent..

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[Investment novice]

and more blood ....despite the 18.9% growth....

 

reviewing German analysts positions whilst in Frankfurt- they have set buy parameters and are holding for the blood bath to stop....ahead of this week the news articles too read "new week..new hope for recovery"...unfortunately not...new week and more blood.

 

Tipping point will arrive with the agreement on restructuring- seems german analysts think this is very possible. they have set the buy limits at 0.12; 00.18 and so forth.

june results will be painful to view as the market will find the worst case scenario- albeit for realists this will be a good sight as we will have disclosures and impairments.

 

with pain and a gulp- yes we continue to buy more- 19000 shares and wait for further opportunities as it is unlikely now to know the bottom with the  0.10 barrier breached in Frankfurt.

 

[Investment novice]

What do you guys make of CML increasing their holding in Steinhoff to 5%. I would understand the argument of averaging down, if you thought the business would survive. However, they are currently taking legal proceedings against Steinhoff. i.e. legal proceedings against 5% of themselves ?!?

I do not see the rationale in increasing your holding in a company you are planning to sue. Anyone has any theories/insights ?

This was a pont made initially. Most are suing hoping to get a piece of the settlement...not really to bankupt Steinhoff...its a good thing...as they could back down and ask othrs to do similar or reduce settlement. Its of strategic value.

From shareholder analysis...funds are mopping up cheap...as snh is crazy undervalued and there s a market sentiment that a turnaround and sustainability is possible....fundshave been quiet whilst silebtly accmulting.
As difficult as it is to see te share where it is...unemotive....buy..

Interestingly analyst rate this as a hold not sell.......

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[icassim]

What do you guys make of CML increasing their holding in Steinhoff to 5%. I would understand the argument of averaging down, if you thought the business would survive. However, they are currently taking legal proceedings against Steinhoff. i.e. legal proceedings against 5% of themselves ?!?

 

I do not see the rationale in increasing your holding in a company you are planning to sue. Anyone has any theories/insights ?