15225 replies to this topic

[Bullhunter]

Wiese: Why Steinhoff can be saved

Does anyone have access to full article?
 

Christo Wiese, the company’s former chair and a 6% shareholder, tells the FM he believes Steinhoff could still be saved. "I don’t necessarily think it’s only a worst-case scenario. I think if everybody is reasonable and prepared to accept that compromises will have to be reached, there’s no reason why the worst-case scenario is the only alternative."

While Wiese says he "certainly does" have a view on what Steinhoff is worth, he isn’t willing to share it, because "I don’t have all the information yet that one would require to make a proper assessment."

The Pepkor operations in Steinhoff "are very good businesses", he says. "That I do know, because I’ve known those businesses for 50 years."

Wishful thinking or insider knowledge?

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[Investment novice]

Wiese: Why Steinhoff can be saved

Does anyone have access to full article?



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[Procrastinator]

Gives snh manoeverability....but more important reduces exposure to a very high interest environment.
This transaction was beneficial and should have expected share price to reflect...big volume individual trades yesterday evening at close of day in SA.....
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I think its more like star ensuring they have a reliable capital base, that wont further damage assets that they are responsible for due to parent company being fubar.

[Investment novice]

Star raised the debt locally to settle loan from snh parent as I understand it.

Could be tidying up between star and snh ie separation.

Star stake to be sold to pay debt in Europe?

Gives snh manoeverability....but more important reduces exposure to a very high interest environment.

This transaction was beneficial and should have expected share price to reflect...big volume individual trades yesterday evening at close of day in SA.....

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[Procrastinator]

why is the market reacting negatively to Steinhoff repaying debt?
https://za.investing...an-debt-1163190

Star raised the debt locally to settle loan from snh parent as I understand it.

Could be tidying up between star and snh ie separation.

Star stake to be sold to pay debt in Europe?

[Snippit]

Could it be that the new creditor's terms are tougher? Maybe the market had higher priorities, like a public hanging ceremony.

 

Actually the only way to beat organised leveraged shorts driven by insider info is to announce your unexpected leveraged longs to be based upon newer and truer insider info exactly when the main source of the short info goes incognito. Kabillions all round - hohoho

[Investment novice]

why is the market reacting negatively to Steinhoff repaying debt?
https://za.investing...an-debt-1163190

May be a false correllation. The shsre price movement now coul jus be short term trades tha booking profits. Computer trades....will see good movement with infor on progress or out0me of some creditors talk

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[Snippit]

why is the market reacting negatively to Steinhoff repaying debt?

https://za.investing...an-debt-1163190

 

Could it be that the new creditor's terms are tougher? Maybe the market had higher priorities, like a public hanging ceremony.

[Ram85]

why is the market reacting negatively to Steinhoff repaying debt?

https://za.investing...an-debt-1163190

 

Attached Files

•  2018-05-23 15_18_33-SNHJ _ Steinhoff International Holdings Ltd Share - Investing.com ZA.png   42.86KB   16 downloads

[Investment novice]

Another oxymorone type scenario impacting the share price illogically

Coronation suing itself
Coronation had decided to stay invested in Steinhoff and had been interacting closely with the new board to ensure "accountability is felt across the group", said portfolio manager Neville Chester.
It planned to take legal action against the company.

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[Investment novice]

SNH board gets first prize for sinister actions, not exchange entities.
JSE has said main listing Frankfurt, wont suspend shares unless main listing suspended, pretty clear.
Suspension removes ability for people to buy or sell based on how they see this playing out, IN is thrown his hat in the ring, if things go his way he could make bombs. (Or not)

Jse is platform for trade, they are not auditors or guardians of business ethics in the corporate world.
Large scale fraud in the company, yes, company worth a lot less now, yes. Fault of the JSE, dont think so.

This is important as market has shorted share recently on fears ofsuspension which are unfound for short term.

Regarding trading platforms it can be argued there is vicarious liability in some actions unrelated to placement. Legas are targetting investment banks for ipo and depth of due diligence.

Today i want to tackle the conversation on fraud versus accounting irregularity. There is a difference and an overlap between the two and accounting irregularity does not necessarily euate to fraud. Ifrs issues previously raised and refuted.

Snh have been labelled as fraudulent..but you have to marvel at their accounting ability to reduce tax and drive interest revenue through their intercompany loans. Is this fraudulent. Well we need CAs to argue this. And i am not sure that this will be an easy court ruling on this...so legal liability is going to have to be proven...

Easy part...the falsified invoices and income....here..Markie is going to be liable...and this will also determine snh settlement quantum. As imo this islimited to 5 percent ebitda..legal penalty and settlement will be limited. Imo justifies my thoughts on 3 billion exposure on legal costs

It is highly i likely that shareholders can claim loss in share value and total compensation for value lost. No precendent and not done...look at the tesco case study.


Based on above scenario rework the snh value assuming debt restructuring successful.....

Non agreement on restructuring...valuation easy...file fo bancruptcy lose lose....dbt funder battle for scraps...


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[Snippit]

SNH board gets first prize for sinister actions, not exchange entities.
JSE has said main listing Frankfurt, wont suspend shares unless main listing suspended, pretty clear.
Suspension removes ability for people to buy or sell based on how they see this playing out, IN is thrown his hat in the ring, if things go his way he could make bombs. (Or not)

Jse is platform for trade, they are not auditors or guardians of business ethics in the corporate world.
Large scale fraud in the company, yes, company worth a lot less now, yes. Fault of the JSE, dont think so.

 

If our exchange helps you find out if you are legal to be trading on our exchange then we enter a secrecy agreement and we can continue to rake in the moolah from enabling the trading of such vast quantities which is of course our primary purpose ching ching. Then we have full control and can arrange the wool if necessary so tally ho, whatever transpires its got nothing to do with us. And we can blame those german crooks.

Edited by Snippit, 22 May 2018 - 11:07 PM.

[Procrastinator]

Lots of easy money for these dubious exchange entities, lots of excuses for not acting as they would have done in the days when laws were enforced. What is preventing insider information control for the purpose of increasing control (sell high, buy low) by certain individuals. If it can be done it will be - especially if authorities benefit from looking the way. There is not one iota of anything innocent here, it is all sinister.

SNH board gets first prize for sinister actions, not exchange entities.
JSE has said main listing Frankfurt, wont suspend shares unless main listing suspended, pretty clear.
Suspension removes ability for people to buy or sell based on how they see this playing out, IN is thrown his hat in the ring, if things go his way he could make bombs. (Or not)

Jse is platform for trade, they are not auditors or guardians of business ethics in the corporate world.
Large scale fraud in the company, yes, company worth a lot less now, yes. Fault of the JSE, dont think so.

[Snippit]

Jse have been vocal. Have not been silent. Thy probably will act if frankfurt acts or pending failure for h1 in aug and full results december.
The jse like frankfurt are working with snh on this and have been bound to non disclosures. They too would be liable for not acting in the correct manner...surely....these are institutions under tremendous pressure and risk themselves.

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Lots of easy money for these dubious exchange entities, lots of excuses for not acting as they would have done in the days when laws were enforced. What is preventing insider information control for the purpose of increasing control (sell high, buy low) by certain individuals. If it can be done it will be - especially if authorities benefit from looking the way. There is not one iota of anything innocent here, it is all sinister.

[Investment novice]

JSE overdue for being non-involved. Silence is just more fraud. If it is so bad that nothing can be said then it must be suspended. Full stop.

Jse have been vocal. Have not been silent. Thy probably will act if frankfurt acts or pending failure for h1 in aug and full results december.
The jse like frankfurt are working with snh on this and have been bound to non disclosures. They too would be liable for not acting in the correct manner...surely....these are institutions under tremendous pressure and risk themselves.

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[Investment novice]

JSE overdue for being non-involved. Silence is just more fraud. If it is so bad that nothing can be said then it must be suspended. Full stop.

Jse have been vocal. Have not been silent. Thy probably will act if frankfurt acts or pending failure for h1 in aug and full results december.
The jse like frankfurt are working with snh on this and have been bound to non disclosures. They too would be liable for not acting in the correct manner...surely....these are institutions under tremendous pressure and risk themselves.

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[Snippit]

Then ofcourse there is the gross fraud...need to understand how much that is. ....
 

 

JSE overdue for being non-involved. Silence is just more fraud. If it is so bad that nothing can be said then it must be suspended. Full stop.

[Investment novice]

Will try to write daily....until various issues discussed from sens.
Share price up and down..technicals may point downward but can be either way short term as new buyers entering market and sellers exiting...traders taking profit.

Sens disclosure of relationship with debt holder was new. Covenants were breached and all debt is due end of august. This is the single piece of information which should have created mass exodus and share price tracking to 10c last friday..surprising though that it did not.......

Snh have been hard at work to counter this. This is the fire that was referenced previously.

Reflecting on all their actions historically knowing the above....i would be keen to understand why they have not filed for bankruptcy protection???

A plausible argument could be that talks with debt holders sinc december are progressing and snh are close to an agreement that could ensure debt settlement in 3 years. The h1 revenue figures were key to demonstrate profitability ability. Suggesting snh may generate 1 biilion euro per year operating ebitda....thats 3 billion towards debt repaymemt. Conservative as we not factoring growth and turnaround success of potentially another 500m euros...other value???
There is last years 1 billion euro profit and the sale of star shares...no one knows where that 3.5 billion euros is.....is there some recoverability.....star worth 4.5 billion euros...with growth 3 years perhaps 5billion.. hopefully a mbo and mattress firm value at 1.5 billion euros.
Property at 1.1 billion without lease income. There is still pepko and poundland...conforama asia assets....
The revenue discloure was critical. The fact that snh is in a net loss does not meam it is loss making...accounting requiements.

Okay wht about legal cases. Costs of litigation and settlement of other parties. Interestingly we discussed this before...previous posts....well lets say veb negotiates a settlement as snh stregnthens their case against jooste and co. 1 billion euros or less could be agreed as veb is non profit and they need to act in best interest of shareholders. Remaining cases may similarly be settled. Snh does not hold total liability and xompany guilt still has to be proven and that percentage of accountability shared with banks auditors and insurers.....

Taking above into consideration. It s very probable that snh is looking for a clean exit. This can occur following the full and detaild forensic process and final settlemet of legal cases. The exit will ensure value is recovered to some extent. Debt holders are paid from the sale of the company and that shareholders will also have some for of retained value.

The value of the share in 3 years...well that would be dependent on legal settlement and success of a growth and turnaround strategy. Perhaps this would be what the analysts are thinking through....in the evantuality a lenders deal is struck...
Tomorrow i want to unpqck and better understnd the term accounting irregularity and understand how snh generated profit from internal company debt and reduced tax. Is this acceptable practice. Wiese remarked that this was evaluated and cleared before referring to viceroys accusations. Has this now been revised. Has revenue from leases an rentals been revised and has depreciation also been adjusted....there is significant accounting items that relates to revenue calculations and we need to undetstand how much of that is cobsidered fraud versus accounting malpractice. Can any ca pls comment....

Then ofcourse there is the gross fraud...need to understand how much that is. ....

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[Investment novice]

Will try to write daily....until various issues discussed from sens.
Share price up and down..technicals may point downward but can be either way short term as new buyers entering market and sellers exiting...traders taking profit.

Sens disclosure of relationship with debt holder was new. Covenants were breached and all debt is due end of august. This is the single piece of information which should have created mass exodus and share price tracking to 10c last friday..surprising though that it did not.......

Snh have been hard at work to counter this. This is the fire that was referenced previously.

Reflecting on all their actions historically knowing the above....i would be keen to understand why they have not filed for bankruptcy protection???

A plausible argument could be that talks with debt holders sinc december are progressing and snh are close to an agreement that could ensure debt settlement in 3 years. The h1 revenue figures were key to demonstrate profitability ability. Suggesting snh may generate 1 biilion euro per year operating ebitda....thats 3 billion towards debt repaymemt. Conservative as we not factoring growth and turnaround success of potentially another 500m euros...other value???
There is last years 1 billion euro profit and the sale of star shares...no one knows where that 3.5 billion euros is.....is there some recoverability.....star worth 4.5 billion euros...with growth 3 years perhaps 5billion.. hopefully a mbo and mattress firm value at 1.5 billion euros.
Property at 1.1 billion without lease income. There is still pepko and poundland...conforama asia assets....
The revenue discloure was critical. The fact that snh is in a net loss does not meam it is loss making...accounting requiements.

Okay wht about legal cases. Costs of litigation and settlement of other parties. Interestingly we discussed this before...previous posts....well lets say veb negotiates a settlement as snh stregnthens their case against jooste and co. 1 billion euros or less could be agreed as veb is non profit and they need to act in best interest of shareholders. Remaining cases may similarly be settled. Snh does not hold total liability and xompany guilt still has to be proven and that percentage of accountability shared with banks auditors and insurers.....

Taking above into consideration. It s very probable that snh is looking for a clean exit. This can occur following the full and detaild forensic process and final settlemet of legal cases. The exit will ensure value is recovered to some extent. Debt holders are paid from the sale of the company and that shareholders will also have some for of retained value.

The value of the share in 3 years...well that would be dependent on legal settlement and success of a growth and turnaround strategy. Perhaps this would be what the analysts are thinking through....in the evantuality a lenders deal is struck...
Tomorrow i want to unpqck and better understnd the term accounting irregularity and understand how snh generated profit from internal company debt and reduced tax. Is this acceptable practice. Wiese remarked that this was evaluated and cleared before referring to viceroys accusations. Has this now been revised. Has revenue from leases an rentals been revised and has depreciation also been adjusted....there is significant accounting items that relates to revenue calculations and we need to undetstand how much of that is cobsidered fraud versus accounting malpractice. Can any ca pls comment....

Then ofcourse there is the gross fraud...need to understand how much that is. ....

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[Investment novice]

Holiday in Germany today

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